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Taxpayer Could Pay For Overseas Renewable Power Projects

July 14, 2021

By Paul Homewood

 

h/t Ian Magness

 

Not happy with extorting billions from electricity consumers for the UK renewable energy industry, the government is now thinking of subsidising renewable plants abroad, along with yet more interconnectors to import it back home:

 

 

 tel

 

Quite why they need subsidising is beyond me, as we keep being told wind and solar power are now the cheapest source of power!

74 Comments
  1. Gamecock permalink
    July 14, 2021 3:02 pm

    Britain is running out of power*, so y’all are going to build power plants elsewhere.

    BRILLIANT!

    The restriction being that elsewhere has to be within reach of a cable, yet the cable can be long enough that the weather will be different at the other end.

    *Self-inflicted, of course.

    • Mack permalink
      July 14, 2021 10:58 pm

      Don’t laugh Gamecock, the old colonies are going exactly the same way. A couple more years of the Biden/Harris regime and you’ll be royally f****d! We’re all doomed. Keep smiling now.

      • Gamecock permalink
        July 15, 2021 11:01 am

        Not exactly. We don’t have Net Zero. Dems likely to get flushed in 2022 midterms, so not likely to get it. BUT, vigilance is necessary.

      • Mack permalink
        July 15, 2021 10:14 pm

        Just yanking your chain my friend. Hopefully you are right about the mid-terms, unless it’s the same vote counters you had at the presidential election! In which case, I fear more of the same beckons.

      • TomO permalink
        July 16, 2021 12:57 am

        https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-pentagon-leaders-hide-truth-illegal-immigration

        No wonder they’re trying to bomb him out of existence

  2. Coeur de Lion permalink
    July 14, 2021 3:04 pm

    Our overseas aid should join China, India, Japan, Indonesia, Africa’s coal fired power station campaign in order to lift a billion out of poverty.

  3. Broadlands permalink
    July 14, 2021 3:25 pm

    They keep subsidizing carbon capture and storage technology, even doubling down. Yet, it can do nothing quantitatively to affect the climate. Self-inflicted stupidity.

  4. El Toro permalink
    July 14, 2021 3:25 pm

    Article from the Telegraph June 27(?). It will be interesting to see if our remoaning civil servants strongly advocate relying on “our friends in Europe”. Could it be that, having planned for a big rise in electricity demand for EVs, heat pumps and immersion heaters, they realise that there just won’t be enough generating capacity in the UK without coal and gas?

    • It doesn't add up... permalink
      July 14, 2021 9:02 pm

      I gather that we are proceeding with scratching French and Chinese backs over more EPRs for Sizewell. A special addition to your power bill to try to hide the cost.

      https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/UK-Households-To-Foot-The-Bill-For-New-Nuclear-Plants.html

      • Jordan permalink
        July 15, 2021 7:52 am

        IDAU – a RAB funding model for new nuclear is a final straw in the coffin of the Thatcherite philosophy of “market knows best”.
        The market was supposed to choose winners though the profit motive. I recall Lord Marshall (the last CEGB Chairman) stamping around the corridors of Whitehall, complaining how privatisation would bring about the end of the CEGB programme of investment in nuclear. He had a point – private investors were never remotely interested in nuclear costs and risks.
        Today, the government in the driving seat, choosing winners in the technology contest. Thatcherite dogma swept aside.

      • Ray Sanders permalink
        July 15, 2021 12:28 pm

        EDF are also pitching in with a third EPR at Moorside.

  5. JimW permalink
    July 14, 2021 3:36 pm

    Of course with interconnectors, well enough of them, they can just lie. So they subsidize ‘renewables’ in say Denmark , but actually get coal-fired generation output from Germany or Poland. Its like the Dutch right now who are ‘buying’ so much green electricity from Norway , on paper, but actually getting real power in their cables from France , Belgium and Germany.
    Its all make believe, just like the green suppliers who just get what they get from the grid.
    But the idea of so much demand being met from easily snagged cables from other nations would in the past been laughed out of court. Basic national security would not have allowed it to pass go.

    • July 14, 2021 11:45 pm

      During the miner’s strike of 84/85 I was employed (sub contract) to assist operations at Littlebrook D oil fired power station. This was specifically a “cold war” plant to protect London’s supply in emergencies. It had 5 x 110,000 tonnes bunkers for heavy fuel oil and (covertly at the time leading up to the strike) had further tankers held offshore. For over a year the plant was run in “destruction mode” and generated a seemingly impossible 110% of its very large capacity! The plant and the other oil fired emergency units are all now gone – total madness.

      • Ray Sanders permalink
        July 14, 2021 11:47 pm

        For some reason my name didn’t input so here goes again.

  6. GeoffB permalink
    July 14, 2021 3:45 pm

    Russia has got a submarine with a minisub mounted on the bottom of the hull. Its got a robot arm with what looks like giant wire cutters on it. I wonder why, this major gas supplier could possibly need underwater wire cutters?

    • Dukeofurl permalink
      July 14, 2021 11:37 pm

      Fibre optic cables

  7. Kenneth Burnley permalink
    July 14, 2021 4:01 pm

    “Wind now produces more than 20 per cent [of Britain’s energy] . . . ”

    But only when the wind is blowing.

  8. NeilC permalink
    July 14, 2021 4:01 pm

    Two things the government don’t understand: efficiency and cost benefit analysis

  9. Harry Passfield permalink
    July 14, 2021 4:05 pm

    This will not end well. It’s bad enough we import greatly needed (by the donor country) doctors and nurses, now we’re going to pinch their wind and sun!
    Two things:
    1. The donor country will find a way to keep their wind and sun even if we pay,
    2. A friendly country that becomes an unfriendly country can soon disrupt ‘our’ power supplies.
    Utter lunacy!

    • Robert Christopher permalink
      July 14, 2021 7:12 pm

      “A friendly country that becomes an unfriendly country …”

      You mean, like France, that used our reliance on interconnects to blackmail us into accepting a poor fishing deal?

      • Mad Mike permalink
        July 15, 2021 8:52 am

        An episode of Yes Prime Minister comes to mind when they were discussing nuclear weapons. Humphrey said we must have them if they have them. He was referring to the French although Jim thought he was talking about the Russians. Jim pointed out that the French were our not our enemies but Humphrey pointed out that they were now but we had been at war with them for most of the last 900 years and that was why “if they have them we must have them”

  10. Douglas Dragonfly permalink
    July 14, 2021 4:18 pm

    It is organised. But is it criminal ?
    If not it should be.

    Mean while fuel prices increase as does the food prices.

    Follow the money.

  11. John H permalink
    July 14, 2021 4:29 pm

    Strewth! Don’t this lot love spending our money. If we pay for the foreign wind machines, will that country send us free electricity?

  12. Harry Passfield permalink
    July 14, 2021 4:34 pm

    I liked (not) the throwaway at the end of the piece, that support for foreign power could be provided by an extra levy on bill-payers. Ye Gods!!!

  13. Gamecock permalink
    July 14, 2021 4:40 pm

    Wind/solar generation are land intensive. Does France really want to provide you with an area where you can place your inefficient generators? Doesn’t France, Home of the Paris Agreement, need its own inefficient generators?

    Will Net Zero lead to land wars?

    When the UK government has finished destroying UK with Net Zero, UK land will be available for the Continent. Stromraum?

    • JohnM permalink
      July 14, 2021 5:13 pm

      In my part of France there is a big push-back by some Maires and people with the imposition of (yet) more wind-generators. From a proposed site in my commune I photographed 39 other wind-generators last winter and took a series of photographs and mounted them on an A2 card. I understand that my tableau was put forward at a recent meeting of some of the Maires and committee members with the Prefect of our Department.

      We do not want more wind-generators M. Boris.

      • Gamecock permalink
        July 14, 2021 7:24 pm

        Ha ha ha ha! Excellent point! You don’t even want your own damn wind turbines, let alone England’s!

  14. PaulM permalink
    July 14, 2021 5:17 pm

    Well, if we start relying more and more on other countries providing our energy, we can expect to lose our autonomy. Recently, in the Channel islands, Jersey was threatened, by the French, that if they didn’t allow French boats to fish in Jersey waters then they would cut off the French nuclear powered electricity. I begin to wonder if the left hand knows what the left hand is doing.

    • dave permalink
      July 14, 2021 6:46 pm

      “…if the left hand knows what the left hand had is doing…”

      In Moslem countries it is a deadly insult to offer the left hand in greeting, because it is used there for certain – obvious – purposes.

    • Gamecock permalink
      July 14, 2021 10:16 pm

      “Cost your autonomy?”

      Net Zero will cost your existence. There is no scenario in which you can come anywhere close to Net Zero and still be a nation.

  15. July 14, 2021 5:58 pm

    It looks like Australia will win the race to sometimes get to 100% renewables, which apparently will give them low-cost energy to fund pandemic recovery:

    https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/aemo-s-new-challenge-100pc-renewables-by-2025-20210712-p5891j

    Owners of proper power stations should just hand the keys to the govt and walk away.

    • Gamecock permalink
      July 14, 2021 10:18 pm

      No sir. They should pack up their turbines and boilers, and ship them to somewhere that wants power. China and India are close.

      • July 15, 2021 9:29 am

        The Aussie govt would be forced to deal fairly with its rigging of the market, it would have to pay the former owners to operate the power stations, and they could name their price, rather than relying on income from diminishing intermittent periods of operation.

    • Graeme No3 permalink
      July 14, 2021 11:41 pm

      climanrecon:
      The Australian Financial Revue is about the same level with The Guardian on renewables.
      This was a ‘puff piece’ by the new head of the AEMO about getting to 100% net zero electricity by 2035 (but hidden in the small print was the comment that coal would still be supplying 40% of electricity then – no mention of the share from gas).

  16. Douglas Dragonfly permalink
    July 14, 2021 6:42 pm

    And while central government pursue this costly maddness, local government continue to misapropriate tens of millions AGAIN.
    https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-councils-1bn-city-leap-5652836

  17. sid permalink
    July 14, 2021 7:18 pm

    Paul I dont know if you will have seen this

    • July 14, 2021 9:46 pm

      Sid; Loving Lord Bamford arriving in a gas turbine powered helicopter, fuelled with AVTUR. Oh, the irony!

    • donteachin permalink
      July 14, 2021 11:03 pm

      Excellent and informative video offering hope for the future.

    • Ray Sanders permalink
      July 15, 2021 12:14 am

      Personally I would take the hydrogen concept one step further and combine it with recycled CO2 to make either liquid methanol which can run through only slightly modified petrol engines or easily compressible Di Methyl Ether run straight into existing diesel engines.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_economy

      • July 15, 2021 8:28 am

        How much would that cost per litre, including the hydrogen subsidies?

      • Gamecock permalink
        July 17, 2021 2:48 am

        “which can run through only slightly modified petrol engines”

        Changing compression ratio to 15:1 is not “slightly modified.”

        Methanol has half the energy content of petrol; your mileage will vary – down 50%.

  18. MrGrimNasty permalink
    July 14, 2021 7:31 pm

    The ITV local news was just plugging the Rampion II consultation – usual nonsense.

    Wind price has halved, cheaper than nuclear and coal.
    10,000s of jobs.
    Vital for climate.
    etc.

    I guess they filmed it yesterday because Rampion I had not a blade turning – and no one mentioned that! (I see we’ve just had another 5 day national wind power absence.)

    • Phoenix44 permalink
      July 16, 2021 7:19 am

      I always find it curious that these people can claim that something is both cheaper and cresting thousands of jobs. They don’t even begin to see the inherent contradiction.

  19. Penda100 permalink
    July 14, 2021 8:07 pm

    The EU’s latest climate change plan includes further support for renewables so finding good sites for UK renewables in Europe might not be so straightforward. Or is the idea to look further afield? Africa perhaps? Of all the stupid ideas that have been suggested this has to be one of the daftest.

    • Adam Gallon permalink
      July 16, 2021 1:20 pm

      There is one lot who are proposing huge solar farms in the Sahara to provide Europe’s power.
      What could possibly go wrong?

  20. John Peter permalink
    July 14, 2021 8:20 pm

    Considering the opportunity, where is the Nigel Farage of the party to take on this nonsense and win the next Westminster election through a common sense policy of demonstrating there is no climate emergency and how the country is being gradually driven to ruin by the ruling classes? Seems to me like an open door and four years to prepare in. In 2024 we will be so far down the road towards madness that a majority in Westminster should be achievable. There must be plenty of suitable MP candidates around the country. Problem is probably that all sponsors with money are busy cashing in on the evolving madness.

    • July 15, 2021 8:58 am

      A very risky strategy, a new party like that would split the Tory vote, allowing so-called progressives to form the next govt.

    • Vernon E permalink
      July 15, 2021 10:31 am

      This is touching the real issue – there is no democratic option to this farce. I also see Farrage as the sanest politician around but I am also optimistic that there is a building head of steam within the Tory party. Maybe some kind of sanity will emerge before its too late. As for splitting the Tory vote, that’s a chance that has to be taken and the number of “silent majority” voters who want to see an end to the collective insanity should not be under-estimated.

    • July 15, 2021 10:34 am

      Tory Party is the blue wing of the Islington Globalist Socialist Party.

  21. It doesn't add up... permalink
    July 14, 2021 8:27 pm

    I have been reading up on the current series of OFGEM consultations on interconnectors.
    https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/interconnector-policy-review-working-paper-workstream-2-socio-economic-modelling

    One of the lines of enquiry relates to “social benefits”, and is mainly based on this work by AFRY:

    Click to access afry_independent_report_-_interconnector_policy_review_1.pdf

    It is quite clear in suggesting that future interconnectors are likely to be at the expense of the UK and to the benefit of the other ends. This is allegedly on the basis that we will become a big net exporter at low prices from our Saudi Arabia of offshore wind. Which is of course true as we build out more capacity. The trouble is that already we are seeing negative export prices at times of high wind output, funded by consumers paying subsidies via CFDs and ROCs: this is hardly sensible business.

    So presumably the idea is that if we build capacity elsewhere we won’t be making as much subsidised export. But it is absurd to suggest that that would mean we would be importing much of the output, since it will tend to be windy everywhere at much the same time, and we will have no space to take in imports when there are export surpluses from elsewhere. The issue becomes whose wind farms are cheapest to curtail. With our subsidy mechanisms it won’t be ours.

    On the other hand, if we were to do as before and get dispatchable capacity built at the other ends of the interconnectors (as with the MPP3 coal fired power station at the other end of the BritNed interconnector), that would be a different matter. But why not dispense with the cost and risk of the interconnectors, and simply build it ourselves? And why not deal with the intermittency problems by not building more wind?

    • Graeme No.3 permalink
      July 15, 2021 11:28 am

      IDAUp.
      Didn’t you hear your PM about the Saudi Arabia of wind. That means when the wind blows and prices are cheap, cheap wind will be exported. Should the wind not blow hard enough then the UK will have to buy expensive imports.
      A few sheiks (or Merchant Bankers as they are now called in England) will get very rich and the poor won’t see any benefit (unless they get too close to the backend of a camel).

      The driving force behind this is the Civil Service. No bureaucrat passes up a turn to spend more, provided there is a good slogan. I assume that around 1726 some clerk noted Dean Swift suggestion of capturing sunbeams in cucumbers, but realising it was then impractical filed it away for future use. The time is now ripe for spending more money although the output of cucumbers may not be a success. That will be an excuse to waste more.

  22. July 14, 2021 9:52 pm

    Thrashing around to no good effect like the desperate fools they are, as usual. Foreign intermittent electricity generation isn’t going to solve our own intermittency, as anyone should be able to see.

  23. Jack Broughton permalink
    July 14, 2021 10:25 pm

    This madness is nothing compared with the new policy of banning ICEs from HGVs from 2040. We are entirely dependent upon power and goods spreading around the country: soon we will have neither! The better-off will have diesel genies, while the poor freeze in the dark, just like the 3rd World, but if lorries are priced out of reach…..revolution.

    We’re doomed!

    • It doesn't add up... permalink
      July 14, 2021 10:57 pm

      Invest in canal barges.

  24. Ray Sanders permalink
    July 14, 2021 11:24 pm

    One thing to note about inter-connectors,,,the electricity imported has no, nil, nada, zero carbon emissions that are attributed to the importing country. The emissions are all accounted to the country of generation. Nice trick eh? We can become electricity carbon neutral simply by importing all our supply. Can’t beat these greens you know.

    • Gamecock permalink
      July 15, 2021 11:05 am

      What if France got its power from England, and England got its power from France?

      All square? Paris agreement met?

      • It doesn't add up... permalink
        July 15, 2021 8:42 pm

        I’m sure triangular trade can be made to work. Send the power back via Belgium…

        But who gets to use any of it if it is just going round in circles?

  25. July 15, 2021 12:16 am

    “Taxpayer Could</strike *WILL* Pay For Overseas Renewable Power Projects"

    • July 15, 2021 12:16 am

      “Taxpayer Could *WILL* Pay For Overseas Renewable Power Projects”

    • July 15, 2021 12:17 am

      “Taxpayer Could *WILL* Pay For Overseas Renewable Power Projects”

  26. July 15, 2021 12:19 am

    Paul, ITV local news…totally slick Global Warming PR item based on NFU future of farming initiative
    starred farmer James Johnson
    and the a Doncaster farmer who claimed his recycling of home garden compost into farm fertilizer
    “This will be carbon negative in future”
    ..(nothing was explained ..but the process cannot even be carbon neutral. ..cos CO2 is captured out of the air, into the grass and into his farm crops ..but he’d lose transport & construction CO2 in the process
    To be CO2 negative you’d have to Carbon Capture and that is a perpetual motion machine project)
    reporter Chris Kiddy
    https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2021-07-14/great-yorkshire-show-how-climate-change-is-

    ======================

    Second item (probable national syndicated item)
    “changing the way we heat our homes”
    “Air Source Heat pumps to replace gas boilers”
    now Ground Source heat pumps
    costing 6- £18,000″

    Reporter Kevin Ashford

    • July 15, 2021 12:25 am

      PR shot they used

  27. July 15, 2021 6:13 am

    “Quite why they need subsidising is beyond me, as we keep being told wind and solar power are now the cheapest source of power!”

    Brilliant!

  28. Mad Mike permalink
    July 15, 2021 9:11 am

    Quite why any country would put it’s energy security in the hands of another country is beyond me, especially when it doesn’t have to. I can imagine that this idea is just the type of extreme solution mad Boris would latch on to. He’s pretty off the wall and knows Carrie’s scheme is in trouble therefore he is looking for lateral thinking. The trouble is lateral thinking is great but most of the ideas from it don’t run when properly scrutinised.

  29. July 15, 2021 10:45 am

    The view from the third world

    https://wp.me/sTN8Y-postbag

  30. Dave Gardner permalink
    July 15, 2021 12:10 pm

    There was talk of doing something like this about ten years ago when Chris Huhne was Energy and Climate Change Secretary:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/britain-offers-to-subsidise-irish-wind-farm-industry-1.601261

    The idea was to build some offshore windfarms off the West coast of Ireland, and the UK would subsidise them. I don’t think the idea went ahead.

    • Ray Sanders permalink
      July 15, 2021 12:42 pm

      There’s three points that I would like to take about Chris Huhne….but it appears someone already has. The old ones are the best eh!

    • It doesn't add up... permalink
      July 15, 2021 7:28 pm

      Not sure that it hasn’t gone ahead in slightly disguised form. Ireland as an island has a single electricity market, and is now heavily dependent on wind, exporting surpluses to GB and importing from the GB when it isn’t windy (which was what happened a lot in the first half of this year)

      https://image.vuukle.com/9ffc6604-feed-474e-a82d-c2de2f561502-515cc53d-9d7a-4228-b223-76428912a7fd

  31. cookers52 permalink
    July 15, 2021 12:44 pm

    As a political policy it will undoubtedly succeed.

    The policy just needs a small adjustment to enable implementation, a review will take place and the policy will move on,

  32. It doesn't add up... permalink
    July 15, 2021 8:55 pm

    Perhaps worth pointing out is that OFGEM has just closed a consultation on possible future MPIs – so called multi-purpose interconnnectors, where they would also be connected to offshore windfarms, which might be in UK or foreign waters. There was absolutely no attempt in their consultation to analyse what the effects would be – they were keen on dancing angels on pinheads about how such an asset might be regulated instead. Essentially, it would allow a windfarm the direct choice of two or more markets, depending on which was bidding higher within the cable capacities to shore, while having the cost of the double connection subsidised by perhaps some flow between markets when the farm is producing next to nothing if there is sufficient dispatchable power in one market to supply the other. Of course, the cost of the venture will be for consumers…

    Click to access WS4%20working%20paper%20-%20for%20publication.pdf

  33. Jack Broughton permalink
    July 15, 2021 9:11 pm

    I just got the FES update from National Grid. Their plans for the UK are akin to Mein Kampf, in that the dangerous plans are there but not immediately obvious. We will have to get used to colder homes, power-time-of-day pricing, and sending power to the grid from our EVs.

    The report is 167 pages of glossy technology-optimistic drivel with not a mention of costs, financing or even technology issues in implementing massive scale electrolysis, carbon capture etc. Magic money trees and unicorns are obviously the future.

    Their aim is clearly to spend trillions on replacing a previously high quality energy system with a fantasy based carbon free future.

  34. MrGrimNasty permalink
    July 15, 2021 11:14 pm

    The current Europe floods are unprecedented, record breaking, definitely climate change we are being told by BBC et al. Bad yes, but that unexpected?

    Parts of W.Germany had 3 month’s of rain they said – seems about right, the weatherman quoted the 3 top places as about 150mm in 24hrs, but that is under half the record.

    This is not that unusual for a stalled storm system in Europe, neither are devastating floods around the Ahr/Rhine. A similar weather pattern example July 2014, and a table of extreme rainfalls/periods for Germany.

    https://www.wunderground.com/blog/weatherhistorian/national-24hour-precipitation-records.html

    Other historic floods.

    https://second.wiki/wiki/hochwasser_in_mitteleuropa_1501

    Looking here at the 2001-20 section, lots of years have dozens of deaths in Europe floods.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deadliest_floods

    Are Europe floods getting more deadly – well very modern records are no doubt more complete and more stuff has been built in the ‘wrong’ places and more landscape altered, so who knows if they are or if it’s linked to climate change?

  35. Robert Christopher permalink
    July 16, 2021 12:30 pm

    Another problem with this infatuation with Carbon Dioxide and windmills is that there are other dangers lurking that are completely ignored.

    One is that we could experience a solar storm, where material and Electromagnetic disturbance and material travels outward across the heliosphere, affecting the entire Solar System, including Earth and its magnetosphere. The Carrington Event occurred in 1859, when the damage was only limited because power lines were so rare, but fires were started and equipment destroyed.

    In fact, one occurred very recently, but it was on the other side of the Sun, so it was directed away from the Earth: see the first 1.5 minutes of the video:

  36. CheshireRed permalink
    July 16, 2021 7:23 pm

    There’s fundamental national security issues here.

    UK being dependent on electricity sourced from overseas?

    Seriously, this should be a sackable offence.

    Endless opportunities for sabotage, political blackmail or outright destruction.

    This stupidity must be stopped at all costs.

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