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Can’t Afford A Heat Pump–Take Out A Mortgage Then!

November 22, 2021

By Paul Homewood

 

From the Telegraph:

 

 image 

 

Does not this moron know that mortgages have to be repaid?

71 Comments
  1. David Calder permalink
    November 22, 2021 10:14 am

    End this madness now, please?

  2. David permalink
    November 22, 2021 10:25 am

    This so called government is regulations mad. Everything decreed by government – national and local, ends in trouble. The only way to control things is to let the free market decide. It is the only true democracy.

  3. Ron Arnett permalink
    November 22, 2021 10:30 am

    If you spend your days thinking about how to spend other people’s money, the idea of how it should ever be repaid becomes a distant concept. That is someone else’s concern, not theirs.

    In fact, it is annoying if the notion is even brought up. Such things are beneath their dignity. I mean they always find some way that the cash expenditure can be facilitated. Why would anyone expect them to concern themselves about how the money will be retrieved? Or how those forced to make the expenditure feel about it not being retrieved?

  4. November 22, 2021 10:34 am

    Ah, why did I not think of that?
    More magic money and more personal debt.
    The perfect solution to political parasitism.

    • Chaswarnertoo permalink
      November 22, 2021 12:05 pm

      Yep. Now the plan makes sense, for our psychopathic ‘leaders’.
      Like electric cars, only for 1/2 million people, not 20 million.

      • George Lawson permalink
        November 22, 2021 12:30 pm

        I wonder whether he ever realised that when you borrow £15,000 on a mortgage, it costs a hell of a lot more to pay back!

      • November 22, 2021 10:16 pm

        George,
        Not only that, there is an age limit on obtaining a personal repayment mortgage.

  5. Eddy Barrows permalink
    November 22, 2021 10:38 am

    There are several other inconvenient things that our moron fails to grasp such as the extra costs of new radiators and extra insulation plus of course the costs of the new electric car and the facilities to charge it.When the inevitable increase in interest rates adds to the financial misery I feel sure that public reaction will make it fairly clear to our government advisor the value placed upon his views.Do they not say that lunacy is not an essential qualification to be a government sage –but it helps.

    • Ben Vorlich permalink
      November 22, 2021 11:43 am

      This is an interesting article. The headline doesn’t tell the full story, but interesting none the less.

      Diesel vehicles found to be less polluting than some hybrid cars – ‘cleaner than petrols’

      https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1524876/hybrid-vehicles-petrol-diesel-emissions-channel-4-series-dispatches

      • T Walker permalink
        November 22, 2021 4:31 pm

        Ben,

        It struck me a while ago that all the current BS comes out of a model.

        Climate BS, COVID BS and the Diesel BS – I am sure there are many other stuff people think of.

        40,000 die prematurely every year because of diesel particulate – we are told. The Prof. who first said this I never heard asked by anyone how he knew. One young man from the BBC apparently did ask and was eventually told the figure came from a model. The Prof. didn’t go around hospitals saying I see that chap has just died doctor – did he die early due to diesel particulate?? He was eventually forced to admit that in his model some of those 40k would die a week early and some would die a month early………….. …………..

        A decade ago before particulate filters and adblue there was a problem, but a modern Euro6 diesel has both and puts out little particulate and little NOX.

        I am sure the young guy at the BBC doesn’t work there anymore. Asks to many sensible questions

      • November 22, 2021 4:49 pm

        Your remarks are right on the button, T.Walker and Ben Vorlich .

        We and all our moronic and /or psychopathic politicos and most climate scientists are all being fobbed off using computer models rather than realistic data appraisal supported by commong sense.
        Otherwise we wouldn’t be in such a destructive climate pickle.

        Eastern politicos have not been so fooled, which is the real danger, economically at least.
        Net zero is, anyway, totally useless nonsense since we in UK already put out negligible amounts of greenhouse gases.

        A revolution, no less, however would be needed to rid us of the “leaders” in charge here.
        These dolts are paid to get us the best deal and not to fool themselves in vanities.

  6. Paul M permalink
    November 22, 2021 10:43 am

    It’s obvious that we don’t all live in the same world, moron isn’t a strong enough word IMO.

    • Mike Jackson permalink
      November 22, 2021 11:21 am

      My favourite is usually “cretin” but I don’t know that’s any stronger. Perhaps we need an idiot scale — so many points on the Xxxxx Scale, like measuring Arctic ice cover in ‘Wadhams’.
      Harrabin? Deben?

      • November 22, 2021 11:30 am

        Mr and Mrs Boris Johnson.

      • Phoenix44 permalink
        November 22, 2021 12:20 pm

        I like Johnsons. One Johnsons is full on, utter stupidity with no thought to the issue whatsoever, so a bit of stupidity might be 0.1 Johnsons.

      • Phoenix44 permalink
        November 22, 2021 12:23 pm

        Not only do mortgages have to be paid off, they have to be secured.

        You can’t simply borrow more if the value of the property has not increased.

        A very good way to precipitate another banking crisis.

      • Mack permalink
        November 22, 2021 1:25 pm

        Talking of ‘Wadhams’ Mike, I note that Arctic sea ice extent has already sailed through the 10 Wadhams barrier, 4 months shy of the peak and there’s a lot of thick multi year ice about too. Looks like the top of the world hasn’t been paying attention to all of the ‘experts’ who keep predicting its’ imminent demise.

      • John Hultquist permalink
        November 22, 2021 3:34 pm

        Kerry-Charles Scale or KCS: from -1 to -11

        Sir John is about -6.

      • David Wild permalink
        November 22, 2021 4:56 pm

        Very topical. The the Russians are having to send icebreakers to free up the research ship Mikhail Somov which is icebound in the Vilkitsy Strait. It seems a bit early in the season for problems like that. Ice lollies, anyone?
        PS – off topic: my late father-in-law had the misfortune to sail near there in HMS Avenger in 1942. Truly scary

  7. ThinkingScientist permalink
    November 22, 2021 10:48 am

    And for those of us in later life who have paid off our mortgages? Perhaps on pensions?

  8. November 22, 2021 10:50 am

    Slightly O/T but did anyone else watch the wonderful presentation by Lord Monckton at the Heartland Climate Reality Forum at COP 26? I watched his opening salvo with dropped jaw! He didn’t hold back and laid into the Royals, the government , the Pope, President, Attenbollocks – everybody! Brilliant! His presentation begins at 1 hr. 32 mins. More than worth a watch.

    • November 22, 2021 10:59 am

      It should be splashed across the whole MSM.

    • Harry Passfield permalink
      November 22, 2021 2:26 pm

      The first question CM asks – or rather demands that the COP should have asked – was the very same question I asked on my very first comment on a blog post: Chris Booker in the DT: ‘What is the ideal global mean surface temperature?”
      As he says, it still hasn’t been answered.
      Great video!

    • Vernon E permalink
      November 24, 2021 11:24 am

      Luc: A fantastic presentation. I would like to keep it. Where did you find it?

  9. Douglas Dragonfly permalink
    November 22, 2021 11:00 am

    £8-15,000 purchase & insulation,
    £5,000 to make home thermally efficient,
    £ ? interest on loans,
    £ ? increasing electricity prices,
    £ ? maintenance costs,
    Then what to do with listed buildings, houses of multiple occupation or tower blocks to name but a few alternative residential properties.

    Have demonstration systems been installed in cold old properties to prove their merit ?

    What did the analysis on page 8 say ?
    Did it match any of the comments found on here ?
    Or did it say that people would be better off moving their family into a room above the cattle ? (Also good in floods.)
    At least until the alarmist’s global warming kicks in.

  10. November 22, 2021 11:05 am

    No he doesn’t. These overpaid bureaucrats live in a different world from productive workers and normal taxpayers.

  11. jimiam permalink
    November 22, 2021 11:05 am

    Why do they only ever mention home owners? The council houses will need heat pumps too and at a minimum of £15000 to make them colder that will add quite a bit to the rates. Home owners will be paying twice. Then the council rents will rise to pay for it but we won’t be reimbursed of course. Perhaps the government will foot the council housing bill. I don’t think they have thought this through.

  12. November 22, 2021 11:08 am

    What powers are the governmental authorities likely to have to enforce this eat pump lunacy on owners of existing “old built” homes?
    I prophesy mass civil “disobedience” and unrest which will make Extinction Rebellion and like protests miniscule beer and unenforceabilty of the regulations: healthy democracy.
    (I do not suggest the Guillotining of the politicians involved or of the CCC, if extant.)

  13. Robert Christopher permalink
    November 22, 2021 11:08 am

    “While heat pumps are seen as the most realistic alternative …”

    That is true, but only because the rest are EVEN WORSE!

    It’s evidence that even the NET Zero Intelligence promoters, with their History Degrees, realise the pointless of their aims.

    • November 22, 2021 11:10 am

      Net zero is completely unnecessary given the negligibility of our greenhouse gases output.

  14. Paul Weeks permalink
    November 22, 2021 11:14 am

    I’m looking at installing infra red panels in solid wall, high ceiling flats in Hull, to heat them.
    The Hull based company selling and installing them are beginning to get a following from landlords and tenants.
    Forget the heat pumps!

    • November 22, 2021 11:39 am

      The running cost will be ruinous. It’s also unpleasant having your head warmer than your feet.

    • Chaswarnertoo permalink
      November 22, 2021 12:09 pm

      Powered by what? You appear not to understand physics.

      • November 22, 2021 4:02 pm

        It’s not actually against the laws of physics. But the running cost will be astronomical.
        You are looking at 25p/kWh at present. I am paying 3.3p/kWh for gas. Using electricity directly (i.e. not via a heat pump) for heating is astronomical cost.

  15. Stonyground permalink
    November 22, 2021 11:18 am

    Why not just stay with your existing boiler and just leave it switched off? Zero emissions, freeze you arse off, same effect but without the expense.

  16. Sobaken permalink
    November 22, 2021 11:26 am

    If it’s too expensive even for the most developed counties, then it’s certainly not a technology that will be used in the rest of the world, meaning there’s absolutely no hope it will do anything to reduce emissions globally. Unless there’s some sort of a major technological breakthrough in the future that makes them cost £2000 rather than £20000.

    • Tim Pateman permalink
      November 22, 2021 12:09 pm

      I think, like Sir John Armpit and his fellow troughers, you make the mistake of thinking that the price is the main hurdle. Even if this product were better than a gas boiler it would be necessary to sell it in to the consumer based on how it would improve his or her life.

      So far we have established that, apart from leaving a massive hole in your pocket, you will need to sacrifice significant space within your property, suffer major disruption both inside and outside the property almost certainly degrading the aesthetic of both, create noise pollution and pay much more per KWH for fuel. All for a product that will only be cheaper to run if you don’t mind being cold most of the time.

      Come up with a successful strategy for selling this and even Saatchi and Saatchi would employ you, Armpit and all his chums.

      Personally I wouldn’t accept one if it were free and included all necessary household upgrades and alterations.

  17. November 22, 2021 11:46 am

    To keep your running cost comparable to gas you need a complete insulation retrofit. Cladding, air-tight house with active ventilation with a heat exchanger.
    The output of a domestic heat pump is 11 or 18kW (depending on model) when it is not cold outside. When it IS cold the output decreases.
    My gas boiler is 30kW max and I think that will be typical. The full output is never needed for very long, but nevertheless it is nice to know that capability is there. You will end up leaving the heat pump turned on 24/7 to keep the temperature up in freezing weather.

  18. November 22, 2021 12:11 pm

    Mortgages are used for an appreciating asset and loans for depreciating asset such as a car or heat pump. Most HP warranties last for 10 tears on major components. Some people are already finding that when minor components die it may be impossible to find replacement parts. With high demand you can bet a lot of “cowboy” company’s will cash in on the market then disappear.

    • Phoenix44 permalink
      November 22, 2021 12:26 pm

      Mortgages are not for an “appreciating asset”. They are for an asset that at worst should lose the value of the equity put in in nominal terms.

  19. HotScot permalink
    November 22, 2021 12:18 pm

    I don’t have a mortgage. What do I do?

  20. stevejay permalink
    November 22, 2021 12:29 pm

    Any sensible home owner would take necessary measures to reduce heating bills. If these draconian policies are forced on us, I expect protests or even riots in the streets.
    Are we just going to stand by while our homes are torn apart? All for a Net Zero policy which is based on deception, fake data and lies. Where are we supposed to live while our houses are trashed?
    If it happens in my house, it will be OVER MY DEAD BODY.

    • Old Grumpus permalink
      November 22, 2021 4:42 pm

      “Over my dead boiler”, surely?

  21. st3ve permalink
    November 22, 2021 12:37 pm

    If one’s gas boiler needs replacing today, it could probably be installed within the week.
    If it was just a 1 for 1 swap, heat pump cost could be just about viable, but ….

    Good luck getting a project manager organised, let alone all the necessary trades, plus 2 months’ accomodation elsewhere at short notice, whilst that all gets sorted.
    That’s after you’ve negotiated an extension on your 95% mortgage, that was arranged at 2%, but by then will be costing more like 6%.
    Ah. Perhaps that’s why HMG are wanting all these extra houses built – to house the 800 thousand displaced families each year?

  22. Harry Passfield permalink
    November 22, 2021 12:43 pm

    When I was a (very) young boy I grew up in a 20s terraced house which still(!) had gas sconces in the main rooms – and they still worked – even though the house had been converted for the incandescent light.
    The thing is, technology moves on and cannot be mandated. People were not forced to have their gas ripped out and mains electric installed: the market and sheer convenience gave people the impetus to change.
    But imagine, if people had been forced to change; forced to install a government-defined standard of lighting? We’d still be suffering with poorly earthed, round-pin plugs and irons still plugged into the (earth-less) multi-socket hanging from the ceiling with the (only) room light.
    In the press this morning there are reports that ‘scientists’ and the great and good are predicting electric air-taxis by 2034 along with all number of other technological advances. In 1970-80 I can still remember all the goodies we were supposed to be enjoying 20 years ago. The flat screen TV is about the only thing they got right – though not the technology. LEDs had yet to be discovered. And that’s the point!

    • Mike Jackson permalink
      November 22, 2021 9:44 pm

      And I seem to recall it was important to make sure you didn’t run too many “high” consumption items (heaters, irons) off the same circuit at the same time!

  23. Douglas Dragonfly permalink
    November 22, 2021 12:44 pm

    This moron was the highest played civil servant during his time with Network Rail according to The Times. So it would be fair to assume he has minimal experience of maintaining mortgage payments.

    That said apparently he has some experience of nuclear power stations (Sizewell B).
    What about if the government set him to work installing these Rolls Royce nuclear power generators around the country ?
    This could create jobs, training and the UK would have something to sell to other countries.
    It is long overdue that this country stopped resting on it’s once great engineering laurels and take greater care of it’s hard working population along the way.

  24. David Wojick permalink
    November 22, 2021 1:08 pm

    That you can risk your home going green is considered good news!

    • dave permalink
      November 22, 2021 5:06 pm

      For the sheeple of the Western World, their future status is clear; and it sucks:

      “Sixteen tons, and what do you get?
      Another day older and deeper in debt.
      Saint Peter! don’t you call me, ‘cous I can’t go;
      I owe my soul to the company store.”

  25. Julian Flood permalink
    November 22, 2021 1:46 pm

    Should the government step in and use a system similar to student loans? Having paid the whole cost HMG would recoup the money from the savings the house owner would make by utilising this new and ultra-efficient way of heating…. Oh, hang on. Heat pumps will cost more, not less.

    Anyone know how many heat pumps are keeping the Houses of parliament warm?

    JF

    • st3ve permalink
      November 22, 2021 1:52 pm

      I dont know the exact number, Julian,
      but I suspect it’s somewhere
      BETWEEN -1 & +1?

    • November 22, 2021 2:44 pm

      NO, the government would then use our and borrowed money for a total waste.
      Mass strikes against such mindless policies is the answer to secure U turn at the threat of such civil “disobedience”.
      The same app!is to the entire Net Zero nonsense.

  26. November 22, 2021 1:49 pm

    I long suspected Net Zero is yet another scheme invented to keep us all in debt. Debt and more debt. Money created by the banking system out of thin air and lent out with interest.
    This is the real reason behind Net Zero; they can’t stand the idea that some of the population own homes and are debt-free.

  27. Frank permalink
    November 22, 2021 2:11 pm

    Tonight Monday 22nd November at 8.30pm on Channel Four is Dispatches, a 30 minute programme on EV’s. With any luck maybe with a whole new perspective on Electric Cars……?

  28. Simon Derricutt permalink
    November 22, 2021 2:13 pm

    Since you’d need to install the insulation in order to reduce the heat-loss enough for a heat-pump to be at all viable, a more-logical way to reduce “emissions” would be to leave the gas-fired heater where it is and install the insulation, after which the gas-bill would be around halved, as would the “emissions”.

    OK, a lot of older houses will be difficult to insulate and draught-proof anyway, and once they are draught-proofed you’ll need to install air-circulation to avoid mould growing, or the possibility of dry-rot in the hidden woodwork. Fix one problem, create another…. I’d figure that for a lot of old houses, too much insulation without attending to condensation problems would result in a longer-term deterioration of the fabric of the house.

    The big problem here is that the house won’t be as warm and you’ll have higher heating bills unless the house is initially designed with low-power heating as an objective. Still, maybe they’ll suggest adding the heating bills to the mortgage, too.

    Also see https://www.bbc.com/news/business-59369715 where it seems that next year new houses will have a mandatory charge-point for an EV. Could be interesting to see how this applies to blocks of flats or terraced housing.

    • Ian PRSY permalink
      November 22, 2021 2:32 pm

      This has come up in a number of local planning applications, including social housing. How many years will go by with the kit growing barnacles before somebody with an EV occupies the house? Is it going top be another smart meter-style fiasco where the technology moves on and the kit has to be replaced, even if never used? What about just putting the basic meter/service unit connections in instead? Planners not interested.

  29. Ian PRSY permalink
    November 22, 2021 2:28 pm

    Then there’s this. The gravy train’s bad enough …

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/green-fraud-cost-britons-50bn-criminals-abuse-eco-friendly-state/

  30. Vincent Booth permalink
    November 22, 2021 3:06 pm

    Write to your MP and object to the Net Zero policies being proposed and impemented by politicians; speak to friends and neighbours and ask them if they could afford a heat pump system. I’ve spoken to many people and many are against the proposals. MPs might think again if the general population was against the use of heat pumps.

    • Vernon E permalink
      November 22, 2021 3:32 pm

      Vincent: Are you serious? Everyone who reads this blog and many many more have written to their MPs over and over again. They are not interested (with a couple of notable ex-ceptions). The new religion is deeply ingrained in all our political parties.

      • Vincent Booth permalink
        November 22, 2021 9:18 pm

        OK Vernon, but speak to as many people as you can on the subject. We on this site are preaching to the converted.

      • dave permalink
        November 23, 2021 8:46 am

        When you talk to a male Conservative MP you find out that he is actually afraid to think, lest he have ‘doubts.’ If you talk to a female Conservative MP, you find out that she is too stupid even to have doubts.

  31. Colin permalink
    November 22, 2021 4:47 pm

    Any carbon reduction of heat pumps is predicated upon us having carbon free electricity to supply them. Typically our Green legislators are relying on this technology just turning up, none of them have even seriously considered the cost of meeting all our energy needs from wind and solar. What will likely happen is that most of the energy for these heat pumps will come CGT power stations and therefore ultimately we’ll burn more gas for the same amount of heat. And it gets worse. Heat pumps are slow, they take hours to build up heat, a gas boiler can give you heat more or less straight away, the upshot of this will be a heating system kept running 24 7. I wouldn’t be surprised if carbon emissions actually increased as a result of this legislation, unintended consequences are indeed a thing.8

    • November 22, 2021 6:41 pm

      Can anyone name a “green” substitute for present, traditional equipment or fuel which is not dud and much costlier by comparison?

  32. Mad Mike permalink
    November 22, 2021 5:03 pm

    It will on an immigration ticket but Farage is thinking of returning to politics. He is not a climate skeptic but he knows stupidity when he sees it.

    • ThinkingScientist permalink
      November 22, 2021 5:35 pm

      Farage likely is a climate sceptic, he’s just too politically canny to go down that road when he doesn’t need to. Why give your enemies ammunition? Tackling just the cost and the stupidity is sufficient for him to win the argument.

      He may even have Lembit Opik on side.

  33. Mad Mike permalink
    November 22, 2021 6:09 pm

    So the real cost of installing a heat pump, around £15K, is coming out. Wasn’t Boris’s Net Zero costs giving the installation costs at sub £5K?

    • November 22, 2021 6:37 pm

      They will argue that heat pumps will get cheaper as the market becomes larger.
      However, the major cost is not the pump itself, it is the modifications to your property that are needed as well.

  34. Gamecock permalink
    November 22, 2021 6:33 pm

    Take out a mortgage to buy an electric car. If you don’t, they’ll take it out of your pension fund, anyway.

  35. tom0mason permalink
    November 23, 2021 10:30 am

    Off topic but …
    Even many UK farmers see net zero as a scam!
    Headline “Farmer Focus: Carbon neutral and net zero – biggest scam yet – Farmers Weekly”
    https://www.fwi.co.uk/arable/farmer-focus/farmer-focus-carbon-neutral-and-net-zero-biggest-scam-yet

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