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Switching to renewable energy could save trillions – study

September 15, 2022

By Paul Homewood

 

h/t Mr GrimNasty

 

The BBC are kite flying again!

 

 

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Switching from fossil fuels to renewable energy could save the world as much as $12tn (£10.2tn) by 2050, an Oxford University study says.

The report said it was wrong and pessimistic to claim that moving quickly towards cleaner energy sources was expensive.

Gas prices have soared on mounting concerns over energy supplies.

But the researchers say that going green now makes economic sense because of the falling cost of renewables.

"Even if you’re a climate denier, you should be on board with what we’re advocating," Prof Doyne Farmer from the Institute for New Economic Thinking at the Oxford Martin School told BBC News.

"Our central conclusion is that we should go full speed ahead with the green energy transition because it’s going to save us money," he said.

The report’s findings are based on looking at historic price data for renewables and fossil fuels and then modelling how they’re likely to change in the future.

The data for fossil fuels goes from 2020 back more than 100 years and shows that after accounting for inflation, and market volatility, the price hasn’t changed much.

Renewables have only been around for a few decades, so there’s less data. But in that time continual improvements in technology have meant the cost of solar and wind power have fallen rapidly, at a rate approaching 10% a year.

The report’s expectation that the price of renewables will continue to fall is based on "probabilistic" modelling, using data on how massive investment and economies of scale have made other similar technologies cheaper.

"Our latest research shows scaling-up key green technologies will continue to drive their costs down, and the faster we go, the more we will save," says Dr Rupert Way, the report’s lead author from the Smith School of Enterprise and the Environment.

Wind and solar are already the cheapest option for new power projects, but questions remain over how to best store power and balance the grid when the changes in the weather leads to fall in renewable output.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62892013

 

This typifies everything that is wrong with the  BBC’s climate reporting. It fails to challenge the study’s allegations, instead accepting them as gospel.

The study’s conclusions are solely based on the assumption that the cost of renewable energy will continue to rapidly fall. This assumption derives from “probabilistic modelling”, AKA guesswork. There is not a shred of evidence this will happen, and indeed all of the evidence points to costs increasing, thanks to the debilitating shortage of raw materials needed.

It is telling that the study was written by four economic modellers. and that there is no input at all from energy experts, who would probably dismiss the whole exercise as pie in the sky.

In particular, the modellers fail to provide any proof of how the world can run on renewable energy alone, merely suggesting that hydrogen might play a role.

They also seem to dismiss regional variations, for instance the fact that solar power is pretty much useless for countries in northern latitudes.

Even if they are right and we will all be much better off in thirty years time, they ignore the fact that we will still be worse off in the years in between, as we pay for the cost of the transition and wait for renewable costs to drop.

Prof Farmer says we should all “get on board”. I am sorry, but no sane person would put their future prosperity at risk, just on the say so of a bunch of left wing academics who claim we will better off in the distant future.

This whole argument boils down to two questions:

1) If renewable energy is really so cheap and wonderful, why do we need to subsidise and mandate it, while taxing and banning fossil fuels?

2) If renewables are about to get much cheaper, the sensible thing would be to carry on with our existing energy infrastructure, and wait until renewables are cheaper.

53 Comments
  1. September 15, 2022 1:40 pm

    And of course the related questuon:
    As renewables are hugely less energy dense than fossil fuels, are inherently unreliable so need fossil fuel backup, need very expensive storage, need far more complex grid switching and need vastly greater land area, how can they ever be cheaper? Just isn’t remotely possible, even if we do get richer.

    • bobn permalink
      September 15, 2022 1:58 pm

      Need lots of fossil fuels to mine the elements, build and erect those renewables. As we are making FFs more expensive so to do we make renewables more expensive.

  2. September 15, 2022 1:41 pm

    They seem to be going for broke. The EU is telling lies to cover up the problem with unreliables under the cover of gas shortages. Biden’s EPA is using the ‘green deal’ methane restrictions to curtail fossil fuel generation.
    Across the world ‘totalitarian’ type initiatives are being driven forwards in the face of reality. Either there is global madness ( and after covid I don’t discount that), or there is an attempt to de-modernise society.

  3. September 15, 2022 1:41 pm

    More Tosh from the department of f*** all better to do.

    What about the increased demand from Africa, Asia and South America?

    If we install now, what will be the replacement cost in 20 years time?

    How to balance, batteries? Hydrogen? Unicorns?

    And it still won’t stop cows farting.

    Who paid for such a rubbish study?

    • Gerry, England permalink
      September 16, 2022 11:03 am

      The Institute for New Economic Thinking at the Oxford Martin School (INET Oxford includes the world’s most evil man, Bill Gates, as one of the funders via his slush fund foundation. No surprise there. The Rockerfeller Foundation is in there as well. So where entrepeneurs of the Victorian era did good deeds the current leftie liberals seek to make our lives much worse.

      • dennisambler permalink
        September 19, 2022 11:39 am

        INET Oxford is an offshoot of the body co-founded by George Soros, with $50 million as a starter. The former chair of the UK Climate Change Committee and former chair of the UK Financial Services Agency, Lord Adair Turner, is a “Senior Fellow”.
        https://www.ineteconomics.org/about/leadership-staff

        Setting up a branch at Oxford University gives it an air of authority. They hide in plain sight their financial backers, as you have pointed out above.

        https://www.inet.ox.ac.uk/about
        INET Oxford was founded in 2012 as the result of a grant by the Institute for New Economic Thinking (INET), a New York based philanthropic organisation that was created in the wake of the 2008 Global Financial Crisis to promote innovative, policy relevant economic research.

  4. MrGrimNasty permalink
    September 15, 2022 1:50 pm

    Chasing my tail!
    I just commented that NZW picked it up.
    https://www.netzerowatch.com/renewables-will-save-us-a-billion-trillion-pounds-i-think-not/

  5. Andy Skarstein permalink
    September 15, 2022 1:55 pm

    Why don’t the BBC ever say who is funding these studies ?
    Just who is Prof Doyne Farmer, what is the Institute for New Economic Thinking at the Oxford Martin School, and who is paying for it ?

    • dennisambler permalink
      September 19, 2022 11:41 am

      See my reply to Gerry above.

      • Andy Skarstein permalink
        September 19, 2022 11:53 am

        Thanks for this.

  6. Broadlands permalink
    September 15, 2022 2:02 pm

    “Gas prices have soared on mounting concerns over energy supplies.”

    Yes, and those are the fuels needed to manufacture, deliver and install renewables. Reducing emissions will make them even costlier as more and more shortages take place. A little realism might help?

    • Chaswarnertoo permalink
      September 16, 2022 7:46 am

      Optimist. Figures don’t lie, but liars do figures.

  7. GeoffB permalink
    September 15, 2022 2:11 pm

    No wind, no sun, no power….lets be honest these guys have no idea of the beast that a AC electricity grid is to control. There is no economic storage system for electricity in the 3 or 4 continuous windless days and little sun in winter. batteries, hydrogen, cryogenic air compression, gravity, flywheels, hot sand, none are efficient/affordable and proven to work. The high price of gas is due to lack of investment due to green ideals and the ESG mania, exacerbated by Putin’s invasion and the uptick after covid lock downs, it will come down. Short term (5 years) we only have fossil fuels to get us through, so just get on with exploiting them. Pity UK demolished all the coal stations, before having an alternative. It’s really a big mess! We could all see it coming…….Is it really down to WEF plans, looks like it or gross incompetence.

    • Chaswarnertoo permalink
      September 16, 2022 7:48 am

      You will own nothing, be happy and freeze to death.

      • Nigel Sherratt permalink
        September 16, 2022 10:16 am

        and then the bugs will eat you

      • September 16, 2022 10:24 am

        Unless your are an Australian school kid, and you eat them first.

  8. Martin Brumby permalink
    September 15, 2022 2:14 pm

    One of the problems here is that these modelling maestros have no skin in the game.

    They can model any kind of arrant nonsense and, providing they can keep their faces straight, the Beeb, the Grauniad, sheds full of gormless Arts Grad politicians and GangGreen will happily suck it up. And there never, ever will be a reckoning.

    Like the purveyors of dodgy tests, useless face masks, dangerous “vaccines”, lockdowns “to flatten the curve”, psy-ops agit-prop from Executive Committee Members of the Communist Party of GB, blowing the economy to smithereens, destroying innumeralbe children’s childhood and future prospects; they all will walk away seemingly smelling of roses and NEVER held to account.

    That must end.

    I an reminded of Paul Ehrlich & Julian Simon’s “The Bet”. It would be good to get these clowns to enter into a wager about how much ruinable energy will actually cost in (say) five years.

    I realise that Simon won the best but Ehrlich still prances about and is still lauded for his wisdom. But at least the barsteward had to cough up some cash!

    • dennisambler permalink
      September 19, 2022 11:44 am

      I think they do have skin in the game. INET Oxford is a Soros funded institute, also Gates, Rockefeller and more.

  9. Harry Passfield permalink
    September 15, 2022 2:36 pm

    When Prof Doyne (???) Farmer called sceptics ‘deniers’ I realised that whatever study he was trying to support had a predictable outcome for his point of view. But then, theory and practise are different beasts: I would be more impressed if the prof could demonstrate real-world support for his theory and live without any fossil fuel back-up.

  10. ancientpopeye permalink
    September 15, 2022 2:44 pm

    A load of codswallop and they know it but it will fund more of their nonsense if the money supply keeps coming?

  11. Tim Spence permalink
    September 15, 2022 2:45 pm

    Plan to re-freeze both north and south poles.

    I joke not, Sky News report on a plan to filtrate sulpher dioxide in the atmosphere and cool the planet. Conveniently it has the support of a former UK chief scientis (not named).

    https://news.sky.com/story/scientists-propose-controversial-plan-to-refreeze-north-and-south-poles-by-spraying-sulphur-dioxide-into-atmosphere-12697769

    I just want to know how you re-freeze ice that’s up to 3km deep at the South Pole.

    • Andrew Harding permalink
      September 15, 2022 4:55 pm

      Good plan, we can recreate the ‘good old days’ with the return of Acid Rain.
      Sulpher Dioxide when dissolved in water produces Sulphurous Acid (H2SO3).

      Then there are the questions of how long will it take, and do the resources exist to spray 11 million square miles?

      Welcome to the crazy world of wacky, impossible solutions to non-existent problems?

    • Jules permalink
      September 15, 2022 5:40 pm

      Volcanic eruptions push huge amounts of sulphur dioxide into the stratosphere. The cooling from it is measurable and can be tracked by satellite. These random events are going to happen anyway. Human intervention would be piddling in comparison. It would be like trying to adjust a needle on a vinyl record that keeps jumping.

    • Chaswarnertoo permalink
      September 16, 2022 7:50 am

      Antarctica has just had the coldest winter on record. These people appear insane.

  12. catweazle666 permalink
    September 15, 2022 2:57 pm

    And then the Sun set… and the wind stopped…
    As a matter of interest, does anyone know how we will make cement with a solar panel? Or nitrate fertiliser? Or plastics and a whole plethora of paints, pharmaceuticals and all the the mainstays of 21st society?
    Or even a solar panel, come to that?

    • September 15, 2022 4:45 pm

      As I responded to a greenie who wanted to ban single-use plastics: you’ve just wiped out the entire system for sterile medical supplies.

    • Gamecock permalink
      September 16, 2022 12:18 am

      “No, Mr Bond, I expect you to die!”

  13. tamimisledus permalink
    September 15, 2022 2:58 pm

    I haven’t analysed the report directly or in much depth, but is there any evidence that any of the report’s authors have provided a concrete proposal by which this scenario will be achieved? Or that they can show real evidence that it has worked anywhere in the world?
    I suspect that, like most academics, they have little idea of how the world outside academia actual behaves.

    • catweazle666 permalink
      September 15, 2022 3:02 pm

      “I haven’t analysed the report directly or in much depth…”

      Don’t bother, it will be bad for your blood pressure.

      • tamimisledus permalink
        September 15, 2022 3:05 pm

        I do think that we must understand the enemy (this enemy) whatever it does to our blood pressure ….

  14. Stephen H permalink
    September 15, 2022 3:02 pm

    “This typifies everything that is wrong with the BBC’s climate reporting. It fails to challenge the study’s allegations, instead accepting them as gospel.”
    Hardly surprising, is it? Since when does the BBC ever hold leftists to account, whether on matters of climate, social policy or economics?

  15. tamimisledus permalink
    September 15, 2022 3:04 pm

    It has taken well over a hundred years for the internal combustion engine and the infrastructure that supports it to reach, after a few fits and starts, the current level of “fit for purpose”.
    Why do these academics believe we can do so much better in fifty years, considering that this report relates to the entire energy sector, not just transport?

  16. Carnot permalink
    September 15, 2022 3:36 pm

    When your an academic you are duty bound to come up with some revolutionary theory(ies) – your continued employment depends upon it. The more revolutionary that your story tells the more likely you are to keep your job. The trouble is that economics unlike thermodynamics is an INEXACT science. It now fashionable to come up with all sort of wacky concepts,- MMT, ESG, EDI,climate change and ultra woke. Most of these clowns could not run a bath but if the story is repeated often enough it becomes fact.

    We are facing a crisis of epic proportions, made worse by the Last Night of the Gazproms. Irrespective of the Putin effect a tight energy market was on the cards 5 years ago. Resource quality is getting worse on every extractable resource, be it water, energy, metals or minerals and demand is exploding, driven in no small way by the renewables fever. The energy return on investment (EROI) is worsening and this means that energy demand growth will be driven by resource extraction growth. Ever more energy will be diverted into producing usable, despatchable energy.

  17. zrpradyer permalink
    September 15, 2022 3:40 pm

    Perhaps I can add this – which I found most useful –
    (1) “EU physics denial has come home to roost,” el gato malo. (Featuring power grid issues and much else).
    https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/eu-physics-denial-has-come-home-to?r=2mnu5&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

  18. Micky R permalink
    September 15, 2022 3:52 pm

    What is the estimated cost to date of decarbonisation in the UK? My guesstimate is c£500 billion

    • catweazle666 permalink
      September 15, 2022 3:55 pm

      Which has left us with the prospects of blackouts and rationing.
      Clever…

  19. HotScot permalink
    September 15, 2022 4:13 pm

    Encourage them, don’t disabuse them of their stupidity.

    The UK appears to be moving to fracked gas over renewables, whilst the EU’s Timmerman is doubling down on them even now. The man is an ill educated buffoon as are the rest of the EU bureaucrats like Van der Lyon.

    So let them. We’ll soon have Mercedes, VW and BMW building factories in the UK.

  20. JBW permalink
    September 15, 2022 4:16 pm

    Well we are all saved by the new EV batteries, (according to the DailyMail)

    ‘Game-changing’ new battery for electric cars charges in 3 minutes and lasts for 20 YEARS – more than twice as long as current EV batteries
    Researchers at Harvard have created a battery that’s inspired by a BLT sandwich
    They say the lithium-metal battery can be charged and discharged 10,000 times
    Startup in Massachusetts has been given a licence to build the battery at scale

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-11214911/New-battery-electric-cars-charges-3-minutes-lasts-20-years.html

    • September 15, 2022 4:50 pm

      And who owns 50%+ of the world’s lithium supplies?

      • Dave Andrews permalink
        September 15, 2022 5:26 pm

        It’s production capacity that’s more important. The three most critical metals for EV batteries are lithium, cobalt and nickel. All are abundant in the earth’s crust but supply depends on mine production capacity. New mines are not being opened fast enough to keep up with demand.

        China dominates battery production at every stage of the EV supply chain downstream of mining. 76% of battery cell production capacity, 70% of cathode and 85% of anode material production is in China. Over half of global raw material processing of lithium, cobalt and graphite occurs in China. With 80 % of global graphite mining China dominates the entire graphite anode supply chain end-to-end.

        Shares of global EV battery production are China76%, the US 7%, EU 7%, Korea 5%, Japan 4%, SE Asia 1%

        (All data from the IEA ‘Global Supply Chains of EV Batteries’, July 2022)

    • Sean permalink
      September 15, 2022 6:05 pm

      From the article: “But they’re prone to the formation of ‘dendrites’ – tiny, rigid tree-like structures that speed up battery failure.” A paper on sciencedirect.com on using self-heating to control dendrite formation in lithoum-metal batteries notes “In fact, these dendritic projections are also capable of piercing through the battery separator and electrically shorting the battery. This can result in a severe thermal runaway, and the organic electrolyte being highly flammable could catch fire, which represents an unacceptable safety hazard.” The company expects to be able to produce full-scale vehicle batteries in three to five years, but given the potential problems resulting from uncontrolled dendrite growth, I’d want to see a _lot_ of testing before we can think about their use in commercial products.

  21. Robert Christopher permalink
    September 15, 2022 4:16 pm

    In my youth I was warned of the iffy models, especially the pretty ones!

    “… but questions remain over how to best store power and balance the grid when the changes in the weather leads to fall in renewable output.”

    After all, there are so many good alternatives, it’s difficult to chose. 🙂

  22. emhmailmaccom permalink
    September 15, 2022 4:41 pm

    These are the measured productivity levels for Weather-Dependent “Renewable” power generation over the last decade in Europe.

    EU+UK 2011-21
    Onshore Wind power 22.5%
    Offshore Wind power 32.7%
    Combined EU Wind power 23.5%
    Solar PV 11.6%
    Combined Weather-Dependent power: 18.7%

    Conventional Generation 90.0%

    The US EIA publishes comparative figures power generation both for capital costs and for the long term. When those costs are merged with the measured productivities above and are compared to Gas-Firing for power generation, the comparisons can be seen for a unit of power actually supplied to the grid. These comparisons assume that European gas prices are four times higher than in the USA.

    capital costs of power production accounting for productivity
    Onshore Wind ~7 times
    Offshore Wind ~15 times
    Solar PV on grid ~10 times

    long-term costs of power production accounting for productivity
    Onshore Wind ~4 times
    Offshore Wind ~13 times
    Solar PV on grid ~7 times

    Would anyone sane buy a car costing 4 – 15 times the normal price that only works one day in five, when you never know which day that might be ? And then insist that its technology is the only way to power the whole economy.
    These simple net cost calculations show that any claim that Wind and Solar power are now cost competitive with conventional fossil fuel generation are patently false.

    Appreciating that future “Climate Change” from Man-kind burning fossil fuels is a non-problem and not reacting to that non-problem in an economically destructive manner would be the very best news for the Biosphere, for Man-kind and for the Western world.

    https://edmhdotme.wordpress.com/3-graphs-say-it-all-for-renewables/
    https://edmhdotme.wordpress.com/minor-greenhouse-gasses-co2-ch4-n2o/

  23. Dave Andrews permalink
    September 15, 2022 4:59 pm

    I suggest Prof Farmer has an urgent talk with his colleague Dieter Helm, Professor of Economic Policy at Pembroke College, and an expert on energy policy, about how unreliables force up the costs of the dispatchable generation needed to back them up.

    In particular he might like to discuss this comment Prof Helm made in a recent post on his website

    “The costs of wind in particular are no longer falling now the industry is bigger and more mature”

    http://www.dieterhelm.co.uk/energy/climate-change/the-coal-question

  24. Cheshire Red permalink
    September 15, 2022 6:36 pm

    This is effectively a rehash of the 2006 Stern Review, an early appeal to authority / call to action pro-climate change propaganda ‘study’. Amazingly the author, the then Sir Nick Stern, was elevated to the Lords within a few short months of his toe-curling ‘review’ being published.

    Obviously that was just a happy coincidence. Definitely nothing more than that. No really. Just a coincidence.

    It advocated the economic case for ‘action on climate change’ even if you take all climate science issues out of the equation.

    Now why would ‘experts’ take the biggest threat we’ve ever faced out of a review advocating action to deal with the biggest threat we’ve ever faced? The Stern Review was pitched like that as ‘The Science’ was far from settled back then (as today) so they simply concocted a case based on money rather than supposedly Saving the Planet.

    May we enquire how this great green miracle delivering endless cheap energy is progressing?

    The Most Dangerous, Catastrophic and (of course) Irreversible Threat Humanity Has Ever Faced, Ever, has thus been abandoned for the second time, with bags of cash for participants prioritised over The Planet. Some ‘threat’, eh?

    It reveals plenty that fully 16 years after the Stern Stitch-Up this one-sided ‘study’ is resorting to similar, desperate tactics to browbeat an increasingly sceptical public into line. What a total racket this is.

  25. September 15, 2022 7:10 pm

    Obviously advised by the same people who concoct “budgets” for Whitehall. The ONLY reason there is any parity between “renewables” and “fossil fuels” is because of the endless lumping of “carbon taxes” onto the price of oil and gas. If renewables were reliable there would be no need to tax fossil fuels at ever higher rates, there would be no need for billions of dollars in tax breaks and supports and no need for government “markets” that do not work.

  26. Stephen Lord permalink
    September 15, 2022 7:38 pm

    The cost of even 4 hours of storage to get through the peak daily bump would double the cost. Storage for two to three weeks would be astronomical.
    They never count storage cost.

    • Dave Andrews permalink
      September 16, 2022 4:08 pm

      Prof Michael Kelly in his ‘Delivering Net Zero’ report calculated that the 128MWh battery installed in Adelaide in 2018 at a cost of £45m would power the emergency wards (30% of total wards) at Addenbrooks Hospital in Cambridge for 24 hours on a single charge.
      The back up today is supplied by two generators that will run for as long as there is fuel and cost £250,000.

      Click to access

  27. It doesn't add up... permalink
    September 15, 2022 10:06 pm

    This is very disappointing from Doyne Farmer, who is a global expert on chaos theory and complex systems with emphasis on economic examples, having had a long tenure at the Santa Fé Institute. His first port of call should have been to analyse the complex chaotic nature of wind, and to a different degree, solar, which would have rapidly disabused him of the premise he now presents.

    He did important work on the effects of covid lockdowns on disrupting the economy, such as this paper

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09535314.2021.1926934

    Which with a little effort could be adapted to looking at the consequences of our present energy crisis. That would have been a far more important contribution, and provided a warning that governments desperately need.

  28. Redrich24 permalink
    September 16, 2022 6:10 pm

    According to Wikipedia Prof Doyne Farmer is a bit of a chancer who tried to game roulette in his early life. One colcludes that having failed at that he chanced upon climate science the scam that never stops giving.

  29. stevejay permalink
    September 19, 2022 2:43 pm

    What about when all the windmills need replacing after 20 years?

Comments are closed.