Car parks could collapse under the weight of electric cars
By Paul Homewood
h/t Ian Magness
Oh the joys!
Multi-storey car parks across the country could be at risk of collapse as heavier electric vehicles put pressure on ageing infrastructure, experts have warned.
Car parking experts and engineers have told The Telegraph that the growth of EV use in the UK could put pressure on car park floors, with unloved structures most susceptible to buckling.
So worried are some about the ability of car parks to hold new vehicles that new guidance is being developed that will raise the weight levels for what car park floors should be able to hold.
Chris Whapples, a structural engineer and car park consultant and the author of the new guidance, told The Telegraph: “I don’t want to be too alarmist, but there definitely is the potential for some of the early car parks in poor condition to collapse.”
“Operators need to be aware of electric vehicle weights, and get their car parks assessed from a strength point of view, and decide if they need to limit weight.”
New electric vehicles are much heavier than the average petrol or diesel car. EV batteries account for much of this, usually weighing around 500kg.
Comments are closed.
NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT 
Scaremongering but useful to the cause.
Perhaps a more concerning factor is the amount of inertial energy that has to be lost in collisions with other vehicles.
+10
Also in collisions with pedestrians. I think that figures produced years ago, before the advent of electric vehicles said that if a child is hit by a car doing 30mph they have an 80% chance of surviving, but if hit at 40mph they have an 80% chance of being killed. I wonder how what the statistics would show when comparing being hit by an ICE care at 30mph and an electric car that weighs at least 50% more, and could be nearly twice the weight. Maybe local authorities that justify their war on motorists, and marxist green agenda by talking about reducing accidents should consider banning EVs to protect the public.
The lack of noise produced by these vehicles has been a safety issue. For example on narrow twisting country lanes.
Noise from the engine of ICE vehicles would often announce their presence before actually being seen.
” Noise from the engine of ICE vehicles would often announce their presence before actually being seen. ”
Particularly at poorly-sighted junctions on country roads, although how many drivers open windows to listen for traffic in that situation?
I cycle a lot, and am totally reliant on “hearing” cars coming up behind me.
I suppose a host of burning battery cars is likely to weaken the structure.
You stole my thunder. Exactly.
It won’t take long until there will be a number of fires (which they can’t put out) in parking structures – commercial, residential, government – and they will then ban EV’s from using the parking.
Are electric cars eligible for tax relief ? I am thinking of the roads. The potholes on our highways are large, numerous and dangerous too.
As for multi storey car parks, I feel the local council would be happy if they close down. Reducing the convenience of private car ownership while freeing up land in the city for student flats.
Quite right, DD. The ‘Asphalt Association’ is warning that our rapidly (and very visibly) crumbling roads will be adversely damaged by the growth in use of heavy BEV’s. £14bn they estimate is needed just to get the roads up to snuff now. Hey, that’s just petty cash – no more than the annual inflation of the HS2 budget!🤬
All these weight problems were identified quite a while ago. Our infrastructure, initially designed for horse and cart, modified to smooth the ride of motor cars and lorries, then virtually ignored whilst new costly trunk roads, bypasses and motorways built. In the meantime the same old routes took greater dynamic loads much more frequently whilst maintenance spending was slashed – what happened to the summer ritual of tar and grit teams pushing out to refresh the waterproofing and skid resistance of those old roads?
What will replace all that when tar/asphalt becomes a no-no as part of the crazy net zero scheme to do away with oil and gas derived products?
Tesla Model S weighs a little less than Mercedes S500.
Both of which are unaffordable for most people and both automatic transmissions, but at least the Mercedes has a proper engine: 3.0L inline-6 turbo engine
>>Tesla Model S weighs a little less than Mercedes S500
I gave up spending silly money on cars after a BMW that got gremlins in its electronics soon after running out of warranty and had to be sold for a serious loss.
You can always buy second-hand, you can get a hell of a lot of Merc diesel for £3,000 – £5,000.
I’m running an 2007 E320 estate, executive class luxury, ferocious mid-range torque for overtaking and steers like an F1 car.
That’s what most people do. Brand new cars are either company cars or their owners are rich people.
>>You can always buy second-hand
A 1990 petrol Astra was 865kg.
The latest closest equivalent is 1266kg.
The latest hybrid version is 1732kg.
Petrol: 500 miles
Diesel: 646 miles
Hybrid electric range: 43 miles
Electric: 258 miles
If I were in the market for a city runabout such as the Astra, diesel is the clear winner. And at least a manual transmission should be an option for the petrol and diesel versions.
If the impact on the road is a function of the fourth (?) power of the axle load, how many Astras are required to do the same amount of damage as one hybrid?
About 2^4 on top of each other I’d say.
Larf? I nearly cried
Put all the BEV chargers on the ground floor, fast charging at 80 KW plus (I have seen 170 kW quoted) will need a hefty substation, when one car goes up in flames all the rest of the cars are trapped including the ICE ones on the upper floors. It is obvious that charging BEVs has not been thought through, high rise apartment blocks, terraced houses with no off road parking, will all need third party expensive charging. The local electricity distribution network is just not able to provide all this energy, without burning out, as far as I can work out, there is no plan to rewire the nation. Instead DSR, Demand Side Reduction is the answer, increase the price to throttle demand, using the smart meter controlled by your local substation. Do Not even Contemplate buying a BEV, it is not going to work, stick to ICE as long as possible and watch the collapse of the local grid. I would also recommend getting a couple of jerry cans and storing some fuel, also a 2kW petrol generator they are about £350 and will keep the your lights on and run the central heating, tv and router. Oh and do not forget your 5kW heat pump, running 24 hours in winter…..We are well and truly f*cked.
And the “unintended consequences” keep coming and coming and ……..
…splat.
BMW X5 3.0d 2180kg
Tesla Model Y AWD 2003kg
Collapsing Carparks?
Is that before or after the battery fires?
Perhaps they will collapse in flames, the weakening of supporting steel, frame or reinforcement, by the heat being the trigger for failure. Will make a great movie. “The Parking Inferno”
PS. Does anyone know what the Lithium combustion reaction is, if its internal, where does the fuel for the fire come from if its not oxygen from the air? Chemical equation is fine/best. It’s clearly a rather reactive metal, between Hydrogen and Sodium.
https://www.ionenergy.co/resources/blogs/battery-safety/
They don’t use lithium in the metallic form.
Anyhow I don’t think there is much mileage in this battery fire meme. EVs are statistically less likely to have a fire than ICE vehicles. Also the batteries are being switched over to LPF, a “safe” battery chemistry (albeit with poorer energy density).
ICE vehicles don’t burst into flames while parked unless they are left in the sun without shade for several hours in actually hot countries
“They don’t use lithium in the metallic form.”
You’re thinking of lithium-ion batteries.
The more efficient modern cells do in fact have metallic lithium anodes.
https://www.pnnl.gov/news-media/longer-lived-lithium-metal-battery-marks-step-forward-electric-vehicles
“EVs are statistically less likely to have a fire than ICE vehicles.”
Where is the bullshit distillery you got that load of bollocks from?
catweazle666: the metallic lithium battery is just a laboratory curiosity at the moment. It will be a long time before it will be a commercial product for sale to the general public, if it ever happens at all. No current EV uses metallic lithium in its battery.
Ray Sanders:
OK I may have been mistaken about the rate of fires.
“Looking at the London Fire Brigade data, that would suggest an incident rate of 0.04% for petrol and diesel car fires, while the rate for plug-in vehicle is more than double at 0.1%. So far this year, there have been 1,021 petrol and diesel fires and 27 EV fires in the capital.”
However, it is still the case that the new LPF batteries are a lot safer. Tesla is switching to those.
@kzbkzb
Are you comparing like with like? For example the age of the vehicle involved in the fire? Once a vehicle gets to about 10 years old or out of warranty or on its third owner maintenance is not the first concern. Poor maintenance leads to all sorts of problems including fires. Are there any BEVs over 8 years old on the roads, about 90% are three years old at maximum.
I would suggest that for cars less than four yearsold the rate is even higher for BEVs than your numbers suggest.
If an EV (or any normal car) crashes into my ICE, my ICE may or may not catch fire. But my ICE does not burst into flames when it is parked and nothing crashes into it.
>>age of the vehicle involved in the fire
Traffic backups on overpasses?
Does a crushed Tesla burn?
Yes. See my link on this. Significant internal battery damage = FIRE!
How about when they are submerged?
Imagine, if you will, a backup of EVs on the Mersey Gateway Bridge, cars weighing 40% more than what the bridge was designed for.
Is there anything good about EVs?
They give owners a warm, fuzzy feeling. And anxiety.
They’re handy if you’re going for a drive on the moon.
Are people finally waking up to the many disadavantages of EVs as compared to normal cars?
Need an oversized roof on which we can place solar panels. Then you could race across Australia (which has sun im told)
“… with unloved structures most susceptible to buckling.” Simples: Just have the Gaia types hold regular woke kumbaya sessions at all parking structures.
“Guidance is being prepared that will raise the weight levels for what car park floors should be able to hold”
This journalistic masterpiece was in the Sunday Telegraph today and appears to say that if you issue new guidance then the weight a car park floor can stand is miraculously increased!
This is the Blair/Bojo method of running the country. I say it will happen so it does, no other action is required on my part.
Actually doing something is not as important as appearing to care.
Hilarious!😂
Make the parking spaces bigger, meaning fewer cars per same area of floor. Maybe even a lower risk of setting fire to the next car if one combusts. Many cars are too big for the marked spaces anyway.
Will the additional weight of EVs also shorten the life-times of roads and highways and therefore increase the cost of replacing those roads and highways?
Yes.
Not only that, but the massive torque accelerating the considerably heavier vehicle tears up the road surface on junctions and at traffic lights
So it very much appears that EVs won’t solve anything.
In fact, it’s very likely they’ll make the problem of “Climate Change” worse.
“Special report : Inside the Congo cobalt mines that exploit children” youtube
The forced change from ICE vehicles to EVs sounds so very much like the consequences of U.S. Prohibition, i.e., people like Al Capone and a massively increased size of the U.S. federal government.
“climate change” is a natural occurrence, but politicians (particularly European ones) seem to think the can “play God” with Mother Nature.
Think about it. NONE of the things the fanatics want to tax, ban and regulate even existed in the past, yet the climate still changed.
>>problem of “Climate Change” worse.
You are a bunch of gloomy buggers. The owners of the car parks will just have to limit the number of vehicles on each floor by making the individual parking spaces bigger – rather in the style of parking spaces for the disabled and for mother-and-child. All good, except for the owners.
And that way fewer vehicles will be destroyed in the fires. Win, win.
And charge more per car to maintain their margins
Many need that done for normal cars already let alone the much heavier EVs.
Look at the width of many spaces (and even length) in some cases. They look like they were designed for Messerschmitt extremely narrow bubble cars.
>>making the individual parking spaces bigger
That will also assist various city councils in their objective to drive cars and their occupants out of city centres. Win-win you might say.
Slow moving traffic jams must be an unwanted nightmare for BEV owners unless they are sadomasochistic.
Forget the queues at Dover – this is a report of a two jam just to get out of a multistorey carpark in Cardiff.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/cardiff-easter-chaos-hundreds-of-shoppers-stuck-in-car-park/
Sorry that should read, ‘ two hour jam just to get out’.
The real danger is the collapse of a concrete car park due to the heat of combustion generated by the fires from the EV batteries. No one should be allowed to charge an EV inside any structure, including a residential garage, or a public parking structure. The authority’s really should consider outlawing these silly things and be done with it.