Britain should place a big bet on the petrol engine
By Paul Homewood
h/t Paul Kolk
Ministers should be hailing it as a major vote of confidence in the economy. King Charles should be clearing his diary to make sure he is available for the opening ceremony. And the broadcasters should be leading the news with it. In normal circumstances, you might expect the announcement that two major global corporations will headquarter their new €7 billion joint venture in the UK to be greeted as a huge win for the country.
It may not be popular with the green elite, but it is a lot more likely to be successful
The trouble is, the Renault joint-venture with China’s Geely has been designed to produce petrol and hybrid engines and not fashionable battery powered cars.
But hold on. With the rest of the world pouring vast subsidies into electric vehicles, spending money the UK cannot hope to compete with, it is increasingly obvious that the UK should make a big bet on petrol. It may not be popular with the green elite, but it is a lot more likely to be successful
It is a rare piece of good news for the battered British economy, and its beleaguered car industry. The French giant Renault and the emerging Chinese automaker Geely want to manufacture these engines to supply to brands such as Volvo and Nissan. While EVs are taking an increasing slice of the market, the logic is that petrol will still have a big role to play, and there will be plenty of space for engines that still burn some fossil fuels, and preferably as little as possible, with minimal emissions. And they have decided to headquarter the new company in the UK.
If our political leaders were smart enough, they would jump on that. We hear a lot about how the UK is not competitive in electric vehicles. There are endless demands for more subsidies for battery plants and factories. The trouble is, it is hopeless. The United States is spending hundreds of billions of dollars in making itself a global leader in EVs, the EU is trying to match that spending, and now China is rapidly making inroads into the market with its own low-cost vehicles (most of them so good and so cheap we will all be driving them quite soon). For the UK, with an almost bankrupt government, and representing just 3.2 per cent of global GDP, to possibly think it can compete with this is, to put it mildly, completely batty.
Instead, it would be far better to accept that the internal combustion engine is likely to have a role in moving people and stuff around the place for quite a long time yet. Indeed, with questions emerging about whether EVs are genuinely better for the environment – given all the minerals extracted to make them and their relatively short life – it is increasingly open to debate whether they are really the answer to combating climate change. They may turn out to be a massive and expensive mistake. The UK should make a big bet on petrol, making itself a hub for a reinvented petrol engine, with Renault-Geely as a start. Right now it is likely to have the market to itself – and it might well be able to build a significant new industry.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-should-place-a-big-bet-on-the-petrol-engine/
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NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT 
Huw Edwards of the BBC lecturing us on misinformation…
Defund the BBC!
Cesspool.
Cesspools have their uses.
The BBC however…
Moral authority and Huw Edwards now looks like it could be the ultimate in irony.
When one thinks how far the development of the ICE has come over the years, in performance, efficiency and environmental impact, it would be a mark of imbecilic vandalism to throw it all away on for the sake of what, in terms, is nascent EV technology. I always thought that, at a push, a hybrid ICE was a good solution when compared to battery only so I’m not surprised that one of the vehicle types that is on the banned list post-2035 is the hybrid as well as the ICE and Diesel.
In any case, simple logic should dictate that the removal of ICE vehicles from sale would make little or no impact on the delusion that is M-M CC. But then, we are not dealing with people of logic, but people of dogma who see it all as a means to an end (which is not to stop climate change).
A study was done on Hybrid drivers a couple of years ago. The vast majority didn’t bother to charge them up and just endured the reduced performance of the weedy engines.
I’ve had a few self charging hybrid loan cars in the last 12 months. I have to say if there wasn’t a huge premium in cost which I’d never get back on the mileage I do, which is mainly urban or semi-urban these days I’d seriously consider one.
I seem to remember reading an article on hybrids a few years back that said they were very popular as company cars as they attracted big tax advantages etc. but, when questioned, the drivers said they hardly used the charging facility. Says much about the public’s motivations about the climate to me.
See Mad Mike below. Company car drivers can claim the petrol allowance but if they charge the vehicles then they pay for the electricity so why bother. I read this report and 75% of vehicles after four years had not been charged once. A facility on the vehicle records this info.
Company car drivers usually get a fuel card so they don’t have to mess around with paying first and claiming the expenses later. That gets very significant unless you have a company credit card.
>>Company car drivers can claim the petrol allowance
Harry…the stupidity comes into focus when one realizes that all of the transportation being done to transition to renewables is being accomplished with conventional ICE vehicles and not with batteries. That means more oil, not less.
I have been telling customers for years that for ‘normal day to day’ motoring you are best off with a small petrol engined car, the maintainance issues that plague modern diesel are not present and mpg now is very good. I have an old 100’000 mile Aygo that must do well over 60 mpg. road tax is £20 for the year. Gheap as chips.
Which “maintenance issues”?
The problem with all “modern cars” is the excessive electronics, plus things that politicians mandate that actual customers never asked for.
>>maintainance issues that plague modern diesel
“And the broadcasters should be leading the news with it”
It’s safe to say the Beeb won’t be…
I wasn’t aware that the BBC had a ‘news’ programme these days. Good to see GBN covering the Orange parade in Belfast yesterday.
@ Gerry – They do, but it’s “News WE think you should know about, and not a word about things we don’t”…
Paedophiles and prostitutes, avoid them both, courtesy of the Main Stream Media especially State Broadcasters!
Im not an engineer nor scientist; I refuse to believe that far more efficient ICE engines (coupled with KERS/Hydrid technology) are not feasible. If BMW/Audi et al can screw ~ 60-70mpg now – maybe 2- 2.5 x more efficient than say 30 years ago how far can that go? I agree wholeheartedly that the green agenda has zilch to do with saving the planet which has survived far more catastrophic events than the scam of AWG/CC over billions of years…?
One of the problems that’s starting to raise its ugly head in the UK is the growing introduction of blanket 20MPH speed limits – enforced by ANPR cameras – this is resulting in traffic crawling around in 2nd gear causing havoc with MPG rates, vastly increasing pollution and all the nasties that go with it. (Contrary to what is claimed by the proponents of the scheme !)
It’s becoming increasingly clear that the prime objective is the complete removal of the private motor vehicle, regardless of the nature of the propulsion system. Whether this holds up against popular opposition is questionable. Rational people can only hope that common sense will prevail – but one must doubt it !
They have started a programme in Wales of introducing 20 mph limits in all (I think) villages and towns and already a petition has been started to stop the this madness. The last time I looked 21K people had signed which led to the Welsh Government shutting it down in June. Where it has been introduced there has been very little compliance.
They introduced a 20 mph limit in a neighbouring village in Kent and I have seen little or no compliance. I experimented by trying to drive a 20 mph through the village and my automatic car just didn’t want to go at that speed so I spent more time looking at my speedo and trying to keep the speed down than I spent looking at the road.
It’s not only what used to be 30 mph limits (that strangely did not have speed cameras, but motorways and A roads did) that are under attack. Look at the sudden reductions (even since the insane removal of unrestricted) on other roads. And not only in the UK. It seems that European politicians irrespective of which party they claim to be simply hate their own populations.
Ah, socialism, dont you love it.
Hi 186no, read my post further down. There is every possibility of doubling even the current figures
Toyota would argue with the comment about hybrids being ‘new’.
And they have made in UK for some time.
This is just an advert for a new JV.
‘two major global corporations will headquarter their new €7 billion joint venture in the UK’
They’ll be sorry.
Pourquoi ?
Visitors/employees will have to pass through a gauntlet of protestors every day.
London/UK government will not ensure the peace.
With the EU preparing regulations on batteries that will introduce demands for recycled content, tracing mineral sources, no use of child labour, end of life recycling etc that should kill off any battery production in the EU, betting on normal engine production would seem sensible. Who knows, the dream of a clean 2-stroke might be cracked.
A clean 2 stroke is available.
The fact that the UK Government discourse to cover up any good news relating to carbon fuel industry is not going unnoticed. Last year the Government kept quiet about the Pentagon awarding Rolls Royce a huge 2.6Bn USD order to supply 600+ gas turbine engines to the US Airforce to replace the whole of their B52 Stratofortress fleet. They beat off all global competition for this significant order, however, not a dickie bird from our government because they wouldn’t want to promote anything positive about carbon-based products. Every one of our weak, woke, self-serving politicians should hold their heads in shame and disgust. It’s time for a complete clear out of these muppets in the Commons. They don’t listen to the electorate, and they don’t act on our behalf’s, they simply dictate and look after their own interests.
Good comment
Maybe but shows confidence that the US Airforce has in the UK to deliver on this obligation. You never know one of the benefits being outside UK is we become the goto supplier for stuff people want as we aren’t hide bound to daft EU rules. Better to just get on with it quietly and not advertise the fact as far as im concerned.
“Not a dickie bird from our government because they wouldn’t want to promote anything positive about carbon-based products”
When you consider just how much real “carbon” the old turbo-jet engines on B52’s have emitted in their lifetime, that is astonishing! And with this retrofit they might actually get airborne without relying on the curvature of the Earth…
Should counties make bets on automotive transportation at all? As I recall the EU first bet on diesel based on higher mileage but the system got gamed and when the game was up, the EU found itself far behind in drive train technology. Toyota pushed hybrids 20 yrs ago and that still looks like a viable bet. The hybrids are 50% more efficient for a 5% price premium. China bet big on battery EV and given that they need to import a large portion of liquid fuels, this is a rational strategic bet but the energy to power these is derived from coal. As the article above noted, their EV’s are substantially cheaper than the EV’s that can be produced in the EU.
The UK and the EU have to decide how important it is to have a domestic auto industry vs being the climate leaders of the world. If they choose the latter, they will be importing the manufactured goods to make this possible from Asia and exporting the emissions to make those goods.
They won’t be importing manufactured goods. They’ll have trouble affording food imports they need.
Like the abominable heat pumps battery EVs are not exactly hugely popular. The latest UK figures show battery EVs as a % of overall sales in 2023 were 16.1%. That’s a decrease from the 2022 figure of 16.6%. In the USA EV sales were about 6% of total sales in 2022. There’s no hope of the ICE ban remaining in place. About two thirds of UK EV sales were to companies so private sales about 5%. So not a hugely ringing endorsement of government policy.
Given those figures what puzzles me is why nearly all car ads. are for eVs.
By the way I’m still driving my 2007 Lexus hybrid GS450h and very happy with it.
“Given those figures what puzzles me is why nearly all car ads. are for eVs.”
Yes, and car shows, tv and magazines. EVs get like 5x the press their status rates.
Proper cars i.e. ICE sell themselves without all the hype and excessive adverts that EVs have.
>>why nearly all car ads. are for eVs
According to the IEA EV sales in 2022 were over 10m.
60% of sales were in China which now has more than half of all EVs on the road in the world. Europe (15%) and US (8%) were the next two biggest markets.
In India, Thailand and Indonesia only 80,000 EVs were sold .
Worldwide sales of ICEVs over the same period were 64m.
Meanwhile, China’s largest EV manufacturer, Nio, is making huge losses and has had to reduce the price of its cars in order to shift them whilst also halting its free 6 battery swap out scheme.
The Chinese government has also had to extend its subsidy scheme for EVs to 2027 at a cost of c. £56.9 bn
Despite all the ads for EVs that we see on TV it is clear that all is not well with the EV dream.
Don’t forget the only reason we had diesel cars was a diktat from the EU. We all knew they were major polluters even with catalytic converters. In the late 80’s some petrol engine cars were cleaning the London air as the exhaust was cleaner than the air entering the engine. In 1958 I was told my a Ford Research engineer that Ford would never build diesel engine cars because the exhaust was dangerous and the fuel nasty to handle. BUT the EU stepped in.
I love diesel engines. All my tractors use them!
Nothing wrong with diesel engines for trucks and tractors. It was their use in cars that was the error.
“diesel pollution” is overhyped. Not a single attack on buses, lorries, tractors, construction machinery all of which use a lot more diesel than passenger cars.
Diesel is good. More miles per gallon and the engines last longer. In most countries, diesel is also less expensive than petrol.
Very suspicious that catalytic converters got mandated and closely followed by CO2 hysterics and CO2 taxes. Do some research. There are many links that catalytic converters increase CO2 emissions.
>>catalytic converters
Heh, catalytic converters…
Given the panic over diesel emission of carbon particulates, how about inhalation of platinum palladium and rhodium particles?
Platinum from road dust, Veolia cleans up on British streets
https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-environment-dust-idUSL6N0TM38A20141202
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a21091/platinum-in-highway-dirt/
Given the panic over (insert here what the control freaks don’t like).
The paranoia by politicians and very small minorities with loud voices about normal life is beyond disgraceful.
Gamecock never believed that air bags are cost effective.
They began in the US as a passive restraint. It was discovered that didn’t work. So you have to wear your shoulder harness, which kills the original purpose of the bag.
Yet Liddy Dole under the Reagan administration mandated them for all automobiles. A huge windfall for somebody.
Diesels don’t have catalytic converters. Those are for petrol engines. Diesels have particulate filters, which require a periodic cruise at higher revs to burn off the accumulated carbon. Modern diesels also have Adblue systems which reduce their NOx emissions into irrelevance. A diesel so equipped is very clean. I think JCB developed one that reduced pollutant outputs by 99%, before opting for the hydrogen route. Their logic I think is that cost is immaterial in government construction projects – green credentials far outweigh it. I remain to be convinced that they can establish a hydrogen supply chain for building roads and railways in remoter parts of say Africa. Remember most of their business goes to exports.
In fact many modern diesels do have catalytic converters, my Merc E320 certainly does!
There’s (at least) three obvious opportunities here.
1. Small ICE’s. 0.5- 2 litre.
Adequate performance for runabouts or small commercials. Small, lightweight, super-cheap to buy and run with extremely low environmental footprint.
2. Self-charging hybrid.
So obvious it hurts. Zero urban emissions but long-range practicality. No EV downsides (range, charging, functionality). No National Grid capacity issues. Useable for customers anywhere including apartments and street parking. A obvious transitional engine, until a magic panacea tech’ steals the show.
3. Hydrogen. OK I get that a fair few on here point out technical issues with H but if JCB et al see possibilities then there’s no reason UK should use blocking legislation. Give business the opportunity to succeed or fail as markets and products decree.
On these three points alone the case for a UK ICE industry is unarguable. (Unless you’re a Green Blob devotee, in which case you’re already beyond reason.) Obviously none of this will happen, as we can expect the government to come down heavily on these ideas!
Hi Cheshire Red please read my comment regarding thermo electric generator advances. The hybrid with a TEG is probably a long term option.
The correct way forward is to convert all existing and new ice vehicles to use natural gas (CNG) which is far less polluting. Many vehicles in the UK and around the world already use CNG and the conversion is relatively easy and simple. Then once we have cheap and abundant nuclear energy we can start to produce and use green CNG.
Certainly more sensible than “electrification”.
Even better though would be to find a way of using any and all of petrol, diesel and CNG in the same vehicle. There are rumours that LiquidPiston can do this.
>>use natural gas (CNG)
Porsche Taycan EV loses HALF its value in…..1 year!
If only he’d bought a 911.
Crystal ballgazing – 2030 Porsche announce retrofit option all Porsche EVs with “22nd Century” Diesel and self charging hybrid engine/drivetrain to coincide with 130kph speed restriction on all autobahns…combined mpg in testing has breached 150mpg at 60mph ….perchance to dream.
Firstly, when regularly driving in London (early noughties) I used to drive a Honda Civic Hybrid (looked more like an Accord) to avoid congestion charge and zero road tax. It was the best car I have ever had – a 1400cc saloon that accelerated like a sports car and gave diesel level mpg. Conventional hybrids are very good cars to drive.
Secondly, there are potential new technological developments in the pipeline that could be genuinely transformative. Thermo-electric generators (TEGs) convert heat directly to electricity with no moving parts. They are so fantastically reliable and robust that nearly 48 years from manufacture (and currently winging their way towards the Oort Cloud) the RTG power units on board the Voyager spacecraft are still working.
TEGs are currently low efficiency and use expensive materials but there are potential breakthroughs (ironically using novel Carbon allotropes) which can hugely increase conversion efficiency and reduce costs. Converting a proportion of the typically 65% waste exhaust heat directly to electricity and charging the hybrid battery would represent a huge drop in fuel consumption and increase in MPG.
Mazda, JLR and Renault are known to have researched this area and I am confident others will be. The future hybrid ICE will be vastly more environmentally friendly than any BEV.
A basic guide to thermo electric generation from wikipedia might help
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator
An outline of carbon allotrope developments here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullerene
And a somewhat out of date but useful reference to automotive applications
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_thermoelectric_generator
Sorry they are wiki links but they are easy to follow and accurate ones.
RS many thanks; I have learned more above than 4 years of Physics from 1967-71. All my Anarcocapitalist instincts tell me that EVs are the equivalent of 21st C indulgences handed out by the Climate Inquisition. I know of no one – except perhaps the opportunistic political charlatan that is Starmer – who is NOT an environmentalist or does not naturally gravitate to be so over time; the AWG/CC so called “greens’ have destroyed their bona fides for me but I accept that I may well be in a minority, ATM.
Correct!
Was that the Honda Insight? I remember those. Not what you’d call a looker but similar looking to the Prius. (Maybe the Insight influenced the Prius design?) 60 mpg is pretty useful though.
Not just petrol, compressed natural gas makes a super fuel, particularly for city cars where the compression doesn’t have to be extreme.
Rapid refuel, vanishingly low carbon dioxide and NOX emissions, available in a handy well near you: only a Green idiot would object.
JF
Spot on Julian
One thought about these ICE bans. What would happen if manufacturers, dealers and their customers simply refused, on mass, to comply? What could governments actually do to force something so universally unpopular on unwilling populations if everyone just said nope, we’re not doing it? Restricting access to fuel was the first thing that came to mind but the suppliers could just say no, we’re not doing that either.
Find your MP, photograph them driving around, ask them ‘how will you and your family get on with electric cars, you IDIOT?’
How about if businesses stopped selling anything to politicians and their families?
Surely the phrase ‘the green elite’ is an oxymoron. More like a green sump with an extreme sense of entitlement deserving ample funds and our gullible reverence.
“swamp” is spelt….
I would like to see more use of series hybrid systems. Better than parallel hybrid, this is an excellent interim option while waiting for improved battery chemistries. Oh, but politicians in their wisdom (sic) have decreed all hybrids to be banned.
I would like to see an end to ALL meddling in the market by the politicians and simply let the actual market work. We need an immediate end to politicians picking winners and losers, and totally ignoring what the actual market needs and wants. It’s not only cars, although the invented regulations, taxes and threatened bans here are the most obvious.
Yes indeed. Heat pumps and hydrogen in the gas network being other examples being pushed by the educated fools in many parliaments. https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/the-11200-km-plan-for-germanys-new-hydrogen-highways/
Correct, Mr Realist. The solution isn’t some tech. It’s get the government the heck out of it. The market will figure out what’s good.
On government sponsored, taxpayer funded charging points – did governments pay for petrol stations all over Britain when the motor car was invented?? Electric vehicles are a project designed by the Marxist left to FAIL.
Governments also did not ban electric cars or horses when proper ICE cars were invented.
There is also the little matter of exactly whose bank accounts the extortionate taxes on petrol and diesel, not to mention road tax, are actually going to given the shocking state of the roads and all those potholes.
>>did governments pay for petrol stations all over Britain when the motor car was invented?