Heat Pumps Not Good Enough For Chris Stark!
By Paul Homewood
h/t Ian Magness
The head of the climate watchdog behind the planned boiler ban has admitted that he still has gas heating in his own home.
More than four years after claiming he was “keen” to convert to electric heating in his flat, Chris Stark, the chief executive of the Climate Change Committee, said he still has a gas boiler.
“I wish I didn’t,” added Mr Stark.
The Committee on Climate Change lobbied the Government to bring in a ban on the installation of gas boilers in new homes from 2025, with the sale of new gas boilers banned altogether from 2035 as a result of the committee’s recommendations.
The committee and Government hope that electric heat pumps can be installed instead in many homes.
Questioned by MPs about how the 2035 target could be met when heat pumps remain unaffordable for most people, Mr Stark admitted that he still had a gas boiler in his Glasgow flat.
He warned that the cost of heat pumps remained too high and said it was “very difficult” to install heat pumps in existing flats like his.
Appearing before the House of Commons environmental audit committee last month, Mr Stark said: “The capital cost of it is too high at the moment.
“It can be brought down, but that will not happen unless there is scale installation and scale production. That is one of the biggest barriers. There is not an installer community for heat pumps at the moment.”
He went on: “I have a gas boiler. I wish I didn’t, but I live in a flat and heat pumps are a very difficult thing to put in there.”
Mr Stark said his own boiler engineer was sceptical about the application of heat pumps.
“The gas boiler guy who comes round and fixes my gas boiler – it breaks very often – tells me they will never work,” he said.
“That is a problem – and he knows what I do. If we do not have an installer community out there selling the benefits of this, and if we do not have support for it to bring down the capital cost so that we see the benefits in their use – there are widespread benefits, there is a huge system benefit to using them as well – then it won’t work.”
Mr Stark also suggested that the Government should consider tax incentives to make running heat pumps more affordable.
“The one policy that would make this really sing is to have cheaper electricity,” he said.
“In the round, we should be moving to a world where we are producing all this very cheap low-carbon electricity, but the consumer is not yet seeing the benefit of that.
“You can put a penalty in place and you can remove that penalty with the tax system, so there are tools at the disposal of the Treasury to try to skew this move towards electrified heat, which will make heat pumps themselves much cheaper to use and run.”
In recent weeks, the Government has faced calls from some Conservative MPs to slow down aspects of the transition to net zero, including the 2025 boiler ban in new homes.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/12/heat-pumps-chris-stark-campaign-uses-gas-boiler-himself/
The hypocrisy of the man is astonishing!
If it is “difficult” to instal heat pumps in his flat, what about all the other millions of homes which are in a similar position?
And maybe he should be taking the advice of his own boiler engineer who says heat pumps are not a solution.
Stark still thinks the answer is to use taxpayers’ money to subsidise their own heat pumps! In any event we already know that £5000 subsidies have had little effect on heat pump sales.
And cheaper electricity? Does he not know that electricity is so expensive because the high cost of renewable energy?
Perhaps Chris Stark should go on a course to teach him joined up thinking!
Ironically I asked the CCC a few weeks ago to give me a list of board members who have heat pumps. They told me they do not hold the information.
I therefore call on them now to formally request that each member voluntarily provide this information.
Comments are closed.
NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT 
Let them eat cake!
“there are widespread benefits, there is a huge system benefit to using them as well” Can he explain, I can’t see any benefits at all and my nice new gas boiler is working beautifully.
Ah but he uses gas only in his private capacity. So that’s OK.
This is a typical case of ‘Do as I say and not as I do’.
Well done in formally asking for the CCC board to come clean about their own homes.
The main problem here is the lack of national reporting of the true facts on Climate Change- I feel it is important that followers of this website take every opportunity to lobby their councillors, local and national politicians and local and national media.
We need programmes like Panorama to start challenging the facts and figures that are being fed to the public and until this happens the current legislation and restrictions will only get worse until life as we know it will change beyond recognition- it’s already happening!
Actually the current proposal is to ban oil boilers by 2026 – its only gas boilers that won’t be banned until 2035.
Fat chance. Panorama only do propaganda now, as directed by the BBC. I remember the days when they were guided solely by truth. Now sadly long gone.
Paul, flying pig watch would be more productive.
Stark raving…..you know the rest… But I prefer, Hypocrite.
I’d love to be able to see his shares portfolio (including his nearest and dearests’).
The Stark truth is that heat pumps are bonkers. On second thoughts, you might need to be to keep warm…
And that he should buy a more reliable gas boiler while he can.
On a different topic, Go Cars and Go Bikes which had 50 electric cars and 200 bikes( mainly used by the Deliveroo riders) serving the the Exeter and East Devon area have collapsed into administration quoting the high cost of fuel and the high cost of living as two of the reasons.
Despite significant protests from the locals, Exeter is now littered with one way systems in most residential areas, including one of the key roads leading to the hospital, all of which now means it takes most residents several minutes longer to reach home and that all the surrounding main roads are clogged solid!
The village shopping centre along Magdalen Road, which a leading national Sunday newspaper once voted the ‘Best Row of Shops in the Country’ is one of the roads made one way, already resulting in some traders reporting business has dropped by approximately 50%.
I did my best to oppose these changes but was assured that 90% of the traders and 80% of the locals were in favour of them. I’ve only ever met a couple of residents who actually live here who were in favour and a physical count of the traders showed that no more than 50% were in favour- mostly those that have benefitted from being to extend their footage by putting tables etc outside on the widened pavement.
This scheme is now being extended into other residential areas and, as before, residents’ concerns have been ignored.
Electric charging points are being added on many residential streets, despite the fact that the majority of the locals will never be able to afford an electric car and most of those that can, wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole anyway!
This is just the beginning of the war against motorists who in this part of the world need their cars to get to work because the bus service at best is unreliable and at worst not available at all!
So local democracy is following the same pattern as the national picture, where ordinary everyday people are being ignored and told what to do whether they like it or not- this country is slowly going to the dogs and all in the name of reducing CO2 emissions that are often made worse by the decisions made
That’s what happens when you live in a Labour controlled city!! The only one in the South West?
Perhaps some hope lies from what has happened in Boston where the Tory scum have been ejected from the council by non-party political residents and business owners. There needs to be more of this. The Tories took my council towards bankruptcy and proposed a ridiculous ‘garden village’ of 4000 houses so they were ejected by residents taking most of their seats. To the shame of my area, the Tory was elected in May by just 4 votes, but I think we have another go next May.
Best of luck 🤞
I saw this report yesterday and for a couple of seconds sympathised with him.
No, seriously!
But he really needs to take a long hard look in the mirror, listen to those like his gas technician who know their job and know what they are talking about and understand just why heat pumps CANNOT be the answer.
There is no conceivable way, according to anything I’ve read, that blocks of flats, especially in high-density urban areas, can ever be heated to any degree of comfort and the obsession (because it has become an obsession) with reducing CO2 levels is totally pointless.
While Hunga-Tonga has apparently increased the atmospheric content of the real greenhouse gas (water vapour) by between 10 and 13 per cent and we are heading into what looks like a major El Niño which MIGHT mean a temperature increase of >1° for the next couple of years … can we please rejoin the real world??
And the Millibands? In all their properties? Including whether we paid or they did.
The elites know they’re crap so won’t have them unless it’s via taxpayer money, for PR reasons, in their taxpayer funded second homes
Time for Mr Stark to get a nice new combi boiler it seems. Best hurry up before the ban.
Heat pumps will not work in the UK climate, with the poorly built & insulated UK housing stock – that is the simple fact
If they would, I still would not have one because they’re expensive (tens of thousands) to buy, install (you need new unrated rads and pipework), operate (KWh costs) & maintain, they’re noisy in their 24/7 operation, at temperatures below 5degC they are highly inefficient, they would only provide tepid heating and water, there is increased risk of legionnaires disease from the cooler system water aerosols (showers etc) which a gas boiler operating at 60degC kills, the UK grid and distribution cabling to homes and premises will need expensive, long wait upgrades to deliver the increased loads (inc battery cars) etc
Many professional voices are also echoing these negatives, new homes built with heat pumps are having them replaced with gas boilers
My advice, avoid like the plague, same with smart meters and battery cars
In addition, some new developments that are designed to be all electric are being refused a suitable connection to the grid as there is not the capacity.
And let us assume the powers that be allow the grid connections needed for the transition to an All-Electric future. Without additional fossil fueled base-load, the minute your heat pump turns on while you $80,000 EV is charging it will be Lights Out. A line from an absurdist play by Ionesco comes to mind, “They give birth as if astride an open grave; there is a brief flash of light, then darkness once more.” Life imitating art in the world of the Climate Grift.
It is quite a fundamental problem that the local grids do not have the capacity to deliver the massive increase in electricity demand. It is not a trivial issue as the cost to increase the capacity is massive as rural dwellers find when they try to install a heat pump to replace their oil fired boilers. While oil burners are scheduled for the chop in 2026, not to mention the drive to force users onto more expensive HVO fuel, I am not certain as to where gas users stand. Are new installations banned from 2026 as well? I know we use much less gas for non-grid users than on the Continent. I looked at a number of non-grid properties and all were oil.
Not to worry about grid capacity as Quentin Willson (the motoring man and EV enthusiast) says it will all be sorted out in the next 25 years,
We can certainly take the word of an overly enthusiastic ex car salesman.
Does this ‘energy expert’ have a suggestion for what we will do while waiting for this 25 year period to elapse? Would it not have been sensible to sort the provision of enough supply first? Although as we here generally know, Net Zero is an unachievable it might be to our benefit not to have wasted money on grid upgrades we won’t eventually need.
If houses are well insulated where is the fresh air to breathe coming from? And won’t the air breathed out increase the CO2 in the house decreasing the O2 we need? Perhaps this has been addressed but I haven’t seen it?
The use of a Heat Recovery Ventilation System can mitigate the conditions you describe, but this is but another expensive, inefficient, bandage on a bullet wound.
The green zealots were all in favour of green zealotry when it was other people’s money they were spending or other people they were forcing into poverty. But now they are having to suffer the consequences of their own draconian authoritarian tyranny themselves, suddenly they are becoming hypocrites who don’t want to have any part of their own policies.
Even worse is the insistence that poor people in poor countries should be denied affordable energy and die young from cooking over indoor wood and dung fires so that the zealots can feel virtuous. I see that Roger Hallam is against ULEZs, something to do with all the rotting diesel vehicles on his failed small holding no doubt.
Mr Stark, one of the clueless members of the Climate Change Committee, admits that his committee’s recomendation, that hugely expensive heat pumps that he and his fellow operators persuaded the government to force on every householder, was wrong and they are unaffordable to householders. He and his committee should now formally advise the government that their recommendation was unworkable and that the law they helped to create which imposes the banning of oil or gas boilers by 2035 should be rescinded. This is just one one the many false statements, lies, fearmongering recommendations that this committee has imposed on the nation at great cost, over too many years, and which at the same time has brought the standard of living of us all to the lowest for very many a year. This outright and continuous failure of the Climate Change Committee must surely now be recognised by the the government who should close down the Committee forthwith, before they add to their endless failures, failures which have played a major part in bringing our once great nation into the third division of world states.
The whole point of the CCC is pretence, not reality. Nobody wants it to be honest. Most of those involved in this know that the alternatives to fossil fuels are expensive and much less efficient, and thus wealth-destroying, and that we are not going to change our behaviours voluntarily. They don’t care. People really have to understand that.
Question: What do Climate Change and the coof plannedemic have in common–they are both about control of the populace. Welcome to the world of government tyranny.
Hi Phoenix, I read this link below and immediately thought of you and your views on averages!
https://tools.bregroup.com/heatpumpefficiency/hot-water-consumption
There are numerous errors but I burst out laughing at the line
“approximately 4 kWh per day (based on 2.4 occupants; approx. 80 litres of hot water at 55°C).”
Who in their right mind could actually discuss 0.4 of a person?
True insanity.
Of course you can self identify as .4 of a person and its also cheaper on train fares .
‘In any event we already know that £5000 subsidies have had little effect on heat pump sales.’
Gamecock’s Heat Pumps Galore, upon discovering there is a £5000 subsidy on heat pumps, raised its prices £5000.
Begging the question, if government subsidies/incentives for EVs were eliminated, would their cost come down?
You’re right the 5000 subsidy will go straight into the installer’s pocket and the original price will stay the same to the consumer
Then you wouldn’t sell any because I’ve only raised my price £4,000. But I’m not selling any either because my cousin has only raised her price £3,000. And she’s going bust because my neighbour has only raised prices by £2,000.
No. They would all get-together and raise the price by £6,000.
“If we do not have an installer community out there selling the benefits of this…”
Good way to tank your business by promoting a product that doesn’t work properly. Kiss goodbye to repeat business or word-of-mouth recommendations.
“…and if we do not have support for it to bring down the capital cost…”
Oh, I know that’s easy to solve – shower people with other tax payers money.
” – there are widespread benefits”
Name a single one to the consumer. I dare you Chris Stark. Name one. Price? Reliability? Performance? Practicality? Cost to run? I mean what other basis do you use when making a choice as a consumer?
You are meant to be so convinced that you are ‘saving the planet’ that costs and return on capital go out of the window.
Might fool the gullible idiots.
I expect most us have better bullshit filters, especially amongst the trades. Like the East End chippy on GB News Monday morning going against the enviro-idiot from (I think) from the Independent on ULEZ. The enviro-idiot was going on about the (one) “child death”. The chippy just put him straight – “Its bullshit”.
This man shedding crocodile tears for his own, functioning, gas-fired boiler is the epitome of hypocrisy. His insider knowledge of the situation speaks volumes; i.e., he KNOWS the tepid water coming from heat pumps is useless in older flats designed to run with HOT water from a gas or oil-fired boiler. His owner mechanic told him as much. Yet he is all-in on forcing inadequate, inappropriate air-source heat pumps on his fellow citizens. Rules for thee but not for me.
I can see that Stark had the right qualifications for his job: a perfect fit!
His name is also appropriate – Stark Staring Mad.
The whole quote should be: “I have a gas boiler. I wish I didn’t, but I live in a flat and heat pumps are a very difficult thing to put in there…” And someone else’s money should pay for it.
When I lived in the Adelaide Hills area, (South Australia ) where it can get quite chilly (0 deg C)in winter. We had a fairly large older house, not well insulated and provided with reverse cycle air conditioners which worked very well in winter and summer alike. They would heat a room in minutes, so no need to leave them on when the room was not in use. Not sure how the running costs compared to a boiler as we had no gas supply.
Anything that blows air creates draughts. Draughts make you feel cold and cool you. That’s my life experience
By recirculating the room air, the indoor temp would quickly reach around 22 to 24 deg C. Not exactly toastie, but not too unpleasant
I’m unclear how a poorly insulated large house maintains 24 degrees when it’s 0 degrees outside without some relatively large energy input? Heat is constantly being lost at quite a rapid rate.
No need to heat the whole house, only the spaces in use at the time. House was in Mount Barker.
Electricity costs are high in South Australia, more now than when I was there. I am not suggesting it was cheap, only that it worked for warmth in winter and coolth in summer.
While I admire your grit and ingenuity, I must point out you are playing right into the hands of the Green Mafia. They are convincing you to leave swaths of your home un-heated. What they are telling you is, “You have too much house, that you do not deserve, and we are going to put you back into a hovel where you belong ! Thank you for your cooperation.”
Never happen, I hate the green mafia.
My choice was use what I could or be cold
The house was not fitted with radiators or wood stove and some of the aircons were fitted when I bought it.
Forgive me, I meant no offense. My comment was NOT a personal effrontery, but meant as an observation of the Climate Change discussion in general terms. Again, I apologize.
No offense taken. Thank you for your explanation
Individual rooms had individual units,not central system. We didn’t heat the whole house. Just the rooms we were using at the time. A room would warm quickly once the unit was turned on.
We had one huge wall banger in the living room and individual split system units in other rooms.
I’m not recommending it or otherwise, electricity is expensive, I am just stating it worked to keep us warm.
No gas and no woodstove,
‘Can get quite chilly’ sounds about right, average min temperature in June, July, August 7C. In Faversham, Kent 7C is the average minimum for whole year, quite a difference. A local mole drilling contractor has a scheme for installing ground source heat in gardens of terrace houses (of which there are many). Ingenious but the fundamental issue of the electricity bill and the electricity/gas price ratio remains (as explained here a number of times).
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/@7302628/climate
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/maps-and-data/uk-climate-averages/u10eu40xb
Can ground-source work where housing is tightly packed like in a terrace of houses with small gardens? Also just heating the space you’re occupying (like we do for lighting) sound an interesting concept which I’m trying to grapple with. In the limit it would be like adding extra layers of clothing like a cartoon eskimo.
When you are home you heat the living area(and maybe dining if it is separate) ten mInutes before bed you turn on the bedroom AC to heat that room, we would usually turn it off or down once the room was warm.
Separate units mean you are not running a big whole house compressor all the time.
It would take a lot of getting used to – treating heat a lot like we treat lighting. Or more like, ought to treat lighting. The other issue I was asking about referred to the limited supply of ground warmth that would be getting depleted by multiple users in a fairly confined area such as a street of terrace houses with small gardens backing on to a similar street. Is there enough heat capacity built up in the near-surface ground to keep such an area going through the winter without large drop-off? I’m sure someone’s done the sums. Also knock-on to the growing conditions come springtime with plants facing unaccustomed chilly soil.
As a non scientist, ground source heat pumps sound like grasping at straws unless the installation is very large and very deep.
Just look around a city in almost any hot country and you will see many apartments and houses hung with multiple room air conditioners.
Using these in winter for warmth is little different than using them in summer for coolth (I like this word) You don’t waste electricity cooling/warming areas you are not using.
I live now in Malaysia, I have 5 aircon units 3 bedrooms, 1 living room, 1 dining room, plus ceiling fans. Most of the time none of the aircons are in use. These units are not very expensive to purchase or install and work well when; needed
Perhaps he could consider solar instead?
I started taking a look in more detail at solar in the UK. Government data now includes domestic capacity installed per constituency, which gives an idea of density of installation relative to population, since constituencies are supposed to be similar in voting population.
Here’s the choropleth map in zoomable mouseover form that allows the detail to be examined by constituency.
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/ApSy6/1
The overall impression clearly shows more installation in the sunnier SW, though the densest installations are outside Cambridge. The Orkneys, Shetland and Hebrides show common sense with low levels of installation: capacity factors would be low. There are pockets of rural Greens that jump out – wealth enclaves – even up in Banff, Scotland. Virtue signalling and subsidy farming at its finest. What us equally noticeable is that the level of installation in cities is much, much lower. I’m not entirely sure why this should be so. In some parts housing is over multiple floors in flats, reducing roof space per home. But there are still plenty of areas with 2 storey homes, some quite affluent, where more might have been expected.
I bet Stark lives in a solar panel desert city.
Thanks for that IDAU. I find it staggering that some of the sunniest parts of England have far lower instalation than some of the least suuny parts of Scotland. North Thanet (Herne Bay to Margate) has only 5.8MW with an annual solar insolation of nearly 1,100kWh per annum per square metre horizontal area, whilst Banff and Buchan 15.4MW despite having under 800kWh/m2/pa insolation. That sounds somehow a bit fishy to me.
How the heck am I supposed to remember “choropleth?”
I was rather chuffed to see someone use the term “choropleth map” again!
Its polygon areas with a single value for each polygon. In the case above, the single value is shown in colour.
It’s all Greek to you…
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/choropleth
Pleth (πλεθ) is the same root as plethora. Χορός is place. I find maps colour shaded by properties of the geography very useful to gain insights: often applied to relief maps to show altitude. The Coronavirus Dashboard eventually copied my efforts that showed the alleged spread of the virus, revealing useful insights, especially when showing comparisons over time and calibrated by population. Many climate maps are choropleth maps.
How is it that career civil servants and idiots like Stark get to such positions of power and influence? No wonder the country is going to the dogs.
Well Dr North noted that many appointees had an excellent track record up until they got the government job. Then they appear to have been brainwashed in something akin to the IPCRESS process. All common sense and past knowledge no longer seems to exist in these people.
What is Stark’s salary for his job?
Once the Climate Change Act was passed into law and Net Zero was also made a fixed target, the government has produced Carbon Budgets which are the steps towards achieving the unachievable.
If the government does not adhere to this process, forcing us down a road that we do not and need not go, then the environmental pressure groups will take it to court.
To avoid all this, the government would need to admit that it has been wrong and repeal the Act.
Exactly, and that’s not going to happen.
Governments, the rich elite, and so-called social influencers will never admit they were wrong; it is anathema to their ilk.
I wrote to the Advertising Standards Agency to complain about a advertisement in a national newspaper that claimed that heat pumps were “multiple times more efficient than gas boilers”
Now to me multiple means at least two times and implies even higher figures,
As no device can be 100% efficient and that gas boilers are usually rated at about 90% it follows that claim is wildly inaccurate.
The ASA took no action.
Other companies also make similar claims and together with the confusion with Coefficient of Performance which is valid but only for comparison with electrically powered heating systems, but not gas as the fuels which is the base for the calculation is different.
There is wide misunderstanding, including within government, about how good and efficient these heat pumps are which, I believe is in part why they are being made compulsory. The other part is the mistaken belief that they will reduce CO2 emissions.
I have made this point to the Department for Energy (In)Security and Net Zero but it is hard work and response from them is very slow.
How Efficient Is A Heat Pump?
Ground and air source heat pump efficiencies can at times be greater than 300% since they transfer heat rather than actually generate it.
https://heat-pumps.org.uk/how-efficient-is-a-heat-pump/
Note *at times*, and more for ground than air source.
Heat pump efficiency is measured by what is known as a Coefficient of Performance (CoP). This is a measure of how many units of heat can be produced for every unit of electricity used, under the best possible conditions. Of course, the best possible conditions are not consistent throughout the year, so these efficiency levels for heat pump technology can fall below the amounts indicated.
Boilers don’t need ‘best possible conditions’.
Hello Oldbrew,
an efficiency of 100% is not possible, i.e. more work done than the energy applied to do the work; electrcicty is not energy but an energy carrier.
Coefficient of Performance, as I said is what should be used but they cannot be transposed. It is misleading and sloppy.
All it refers to is how much heat does an electrical unit produce. It cannot be used to compare heat pumps with gas boilers, oil boilers and any other heating with fuel other than electrciity because that is the base of the calculation.
Theoretically, COPs greater than one are possible because you get the heat for free, (no combustion) and are just moving it around. Any electric heat source is inherently more efficient than a gas or oil fired device, as there are no “chimney” losses, and all the heat produced is staying in the structure. But condensing boilers and furnaces have greatly mitigated chimney losses and are, in my humble opinion, a better choice than electric where gas is available.
But what about the energy lost in making the electricity which mainly, 80% of has to come from coal gas and oil and also losses from transporting the electricity from where its made. Only hydro could be feasible since it can store excess but needs lots water and dams
I agree with you completely–heat pumps are expensive, inefficient forms of self-abuse. I was only attempting to describe what COP is, how it is calculated, and why it is bandied about by the green mafia. There is no combustion in a heat pump, and you do get the HEAT energy “for free” as you are extracting existing heat from air or Earth and merely moving it into your home. You are still just playing with yourself, (as you noted 80% of the electricity used to run said heat pump comes from combusting fossil fuels) but it sounds so virtuous to say you have a heat pump.
Yes I wonder if there is a calculation for transporting electricity for say a few hundred miles compared with transporting diesel gas and oil for the same distance ?
Hello Billy,
you do not get the heat for free. Funnily it actually does come from combustion to make the electricity.
The heat from a heat pump is generated by the compressor. a physical action requiring an electric motor to power it. It does not take heat from outside and heat the house with it. The relationship beteem outside temperature and heating is relative, the colder the outside is (Suction temperature) the cooler the inside is (discharge temperature) which is why air source performance declines with a reduction in outside ambient. Ground source do not have this reduction in outside ambient which is why they perform better
Thank you for your most pedantic reply. Everyone understands 80% of grid electricity is produced by combusting fossil fuels. I skipped that part as it is common knowledge. My response was an attempt to explain what is meant by COP, and why it is bandied about by the green climate mafia. I stand by my comment.
I thought it did take heat from outside and release it inside the house ? like a reverse fridge ? I know the mechanism is by compression but surely the heat must come from somewhere ?
Yes, the reverse fridge is a great model. All refrigeration involves moving heat around. The warm air coming out behind or under your fridge was in you food before. (of course it contains waste heat from the compression cycle that make all refrigerants work.) The hot air blowing out of your window-shaker A/C unit was inside your house. The outdoor coil (ASHP) or the Earth loop (GSHP) are the evaporators that absorb whatever heat they encounter, and the refrigerant carry’s that heat into the indoor coil, the condenser in the furnace air-handler, where it is released into your house.
I respectfully disagree. First, forget about the combustion at the utility power plant; that is a given and is not what we are discussing here. Next, the heat of compression is minimal, and considered and unavoidable system loss needed to make ANY refrigeration cycle work, be it a beer cooler, a window-shaker A/C unit, or a heat pump. Heat of compression is considered an unavoidable system loss that can be mitigated by good design, but never eliminated. Heat pumps DO NOT heat your home with this system loss. They absorb heat from outside, be it in the air or Earth, into the evaporator, and MOVE it into your home via the refrigerant, where it is released in the condensing coil inside the air handler or refrigerant/water heat exchanger. Then you either blow warned air around, or heat water for the connected radiation. Refrigeration cycles work via a change of state in the refrigerant. Evaporation absorbs heat, condensation releases heat. This heat is “free” inasmuch as it is in the air or Earth already, and you are merely MOVING it into your house. It is not magic, it is refrigeration.
Yes totally agree – the refrigerant is only the delivery method for collecting the heat from outside
From comments on here and elsewhere, it’s my understanding that the CoP ratings are based on an outside temperature of 7 degC. That’s pretty unrealistic for much of the year: the figures for a range of temps should be given, like mpg for cars.
Secondly, what about humidity? I haven’t tried to delve into the details of the testing process but it seems likely that a “favourable” humidity level is used. In reality, when it’s cold, humidity has a major effect because the external coils ice up and have to be cleared using resistive heating which hammers the power consumption.
It’s my guess that it’s the relatively low humidities which allow heat pumps to work in places like Scandinavia.
Early ASHP in the U.S. used a refrigerant flow reversing valve to defrost the outside coils. It essentially takes heat from the structure and uses it to defrost the outdoor coils. Humidity exacerbates the problem of frosted outdoor coils. As we know, water holds a great deal of heat and melting ice is energy expensive.
Hello Oldbrew,
just to add to my earlier reply, having read that link you made. It is no wonder there is so much confusion when apparently authoritative organisations print rubbish. People read and accept what they say as being accurate when it is not!
The definition of efficiency seems to vary between authors!
“The heat from a heat pump is generated by the compressor. a physical action requiring an electric motor to power it. It does not take heat from outside and heat the house with it.”
Maybe the stupidest thing I ever read. I’m guessing you are a politician or journalist.
The heat comes from evaporation of the liquid refrigerant. Since the boiling point of the refrigerant liquid is very low, even cold outside air can evaporate it.
Paul, good article as always from you.
Ae well as asking the CrookedCCC which members and associated hangers on have installed a heat pump, could you also ask which members own a BEV as their primary vehicle
Everything the activists propose tracks back to their belief that CO2 is evil.
I have seen no convincing proof that this is so. Only the unreliability of alternative systems that are being forced on us.
I have seen no studies done on the lifetime total of CO2 production, including that for the manufacture, installation and eventual replacement, of alternative systems.
Oil and gas will still be needed as feedstock for manufacturing and lubrication, and I have seen no proposals on how these may be accessed by using renewables.
Iron, steel, concrete, glass and a host of other minerals need to be mined and extracted, and there are no studies as to how these can be produced using renewables in all stages of their production.
CO2 needs to be reassessed by scientists with no stake in the game.
Judith Curry has very concisely summarised the reason for the present supposed consensus on CO2 among scientists as “fame and fortune”.
As an initial suggestion I would make it mandatory that all MPs and anyone involved in the present proposals use EVs, install heat pumps in all their homes and use public transport, all at their own expense, in order to show easy it is to adopt the lifestyle that they are trying to force on us.
Sadly, that would be like turkeys voting for Thanksgiving and Christmas
Well stated. Your observations and suggestions are spot on.
Thank you. I’ve recently lived for a year in a modern properly insulated house with an ASHP and comments from my landlady were that it was very expensive to run and that it was not possible to boost the temperature quickly if the outside temperature fell sharply. It would take a couple of days to return to a comfortable temperature. In the mean time she was back to using a fan heater.
A point often ignored is that resistive heating is needed once a week to get the water over 60°C to kill off any Legionella bacteria in the system, as the heat pump won’t heat the water to a sufficiently high temperature.
My own observation was that temperatures were a bit Spartan, and during cold weather the heat pump was running 24/7.
My landlady’s final observation was that she should have installed an oil fired system. (No gas in the village)
Thank you for your thoughtful post and reply. ASHP in the U.S. typically have resistance “strip heat” in the air handler of a forced air system. Using an ASHP systems to make hot water for radiation have yet to be distributed en masse, as the in-place radiation would be inadequate for lower temperature water. What is new here is ASHP for domestic potable hot water, and they, of course, have an electric element to back-up high demand.
You forgot to mention how will we be able to fight wars without oil? We can’t have no wars can we particularly for the US whose economy is fuelled by war.
Doesn’t he pull £140K p a ? Could easily afford to lose a lot of money on a heat pump. WRT street pollution and EVs, what is the CCC proposing about huge diesel lorries? Has the Government set a date for banning imports of ICE vehicles? Oh, and aviation, shipping, agriculture, construction? Sack him
Westminster is all at sea over the CC Act, Net Zero 2050 and endless individual details within.
ASHP’s are just the latest nonsense and won’t be the last.
I fear they’re already too far down the policy rabbit hole to admit this is a flawed strategy. They darn’t face EU / WEF / Green Blob criticism either.
They know if they retract one policy the damn will break and they’ll face pressure everywhere else, so they’re toughing it out.
One final point is the subsidy. Just another £5,000 of taxpayers money thrown in. This sort of spending is why our country is broke.
Disastrous policy making all round.
Their pride and the prospect of a kicking by the Green lobby and MSM also hold them back from admitting that they have made a BIG mistake with the CCA and NZero.
It’s worse than disastrous, but I cannot think of a single word that truly sums up the idiocies we are faced with by TPTB.
‘… our country is broke.’ What? I keep hearing and reading that the UK is one of the richest countries in the world and no one, on the radio etc. and any MP says it isn’t!
“If we do not have an installer community out there selling the benefits of this…”.
It seems that his answer is to ‘re-educate’ his boiler service engineer until he is forced see the benefit of advocating for heat pumps. Then one more honest citizen will join the hell of totalitarian subjects, having his self respect destroyed by having to say what he knows to be lies.
Then he can run for election to any party
Good day,
It is not clear if the concept of a heat pump is understood: It takes available heat either form the surrounding ambient air, or from the surrounding underground, and delivers it inside the home or the building where one lives or works: This is done by using about as little as one fifth of electricity to deliver the heat needed (say, a kw of electricity is needed to deliver up to 5 kw of heat).
There are basically two types of heat pumps: air to air and geothermal. The air to air (bringing in heat from the ambient air around the living or work space), this type usually requires a back-up system (like gas or oil furnace) to deliver the additional heat that may be required, say when the ambient air does not have sufficient heat, as could be the case in colder ambient air. The geothermal brings in heat from underground water or moist soil and most likely does not require a back-up system because it would supply sufficient heat. The geothermal is the most efficient (consistently delivering all of the heat required by only consuming about as little as 1 kw of electricity for every 5 kw of heat delivered); however, it is the most expensive to install because it requires digging either a deep (say about more than 50 meters) borehole, or a shallow (about 3 to 5 meter deep trench and probably over 20 square meters): thus, it can take say over 15 years to recover installation costs.
There is no doubt whatsoever that heat pumps can and do “work”. Installation costs can be shared by using a heat pump to supply various dwellings/buildings.
Good day,
But we have the problem of the much higher cost of the electricity compared with gas and also the electric power mainly comes from gas coal and oil . My boiler runs at approx 98 % according to gasman. My relative in Scotland air heat pump is nearly always running on gas due to cool ambient air . The cost is a joke compared to my £550 vokera inc 5 year guarantee
Yes, air to air heat pumps are limited by the ambient air temperature, but they are very efficient with favorable ambient air temperature, delivering up to 3 or 4 kw of heat per kw of electricity consumed, thus making it more cost effective to operate as long as the cost of electricity is about less than 3 or 4 times as high as the cost of gas, or petrol.
Good day, Ben.
There is a point not much made here in the comments about the UK. Nearly every house in the land has water filled radiators (unless they already had electric heating to start with) Almost none have air conditioning since it isn’t really needed on a cold damp island. So what our Lords and Masters are foisting on us is typically air-water radiator heating which is never going to work well.
Good day Stuart,
Do you mean using a heat pump to warm the water in the water filled radiators?
I would think that it may be more cost effective to install window heat pumps, and using the heat pumps as ac as needed….
Yes, Ben, that’s it exactly. To do that effectively the water needs to be up around 60°C, and my gas boiler (furnace) does that easily. Gas is a third or a quarter the price of electricity here per kWh, and gas boilers are a tenth the price of a heat pump, smaller and quieter. Unlike Mr Stark, my experience is that they are also extremely reliable, capable of decades of service.
I could never justify A/C for the house – the A/C in my car failed years ago, and I’ve never bothered to fix it for the 5 days a year it would get turned on! Forced air based heating in the UK went out of fashion for some reason, except for office buildings, hotels and such.
Thank you for your thoughtful, erudite comment. I have a few observations. A COP of five (5), really? Sounds more like magic than physics. You gloss over the “most expensive” aspect of ground source heat pumps. These installations can cost as much as the house they will heat. An interesting idea I have seen RE: GSHP is a “community” installation utilizing one, very large, very deep ground source loop that provides heat to several structures to gain efficiencies of scale. But again, how would these systems be of use to the deplorables being forced to bin their dinosaur fueled boilers for the next mandated green chimera?
Good day,
I said “consuming as little as”. The COP of a geothermal heat pump can be near constant, and high, because the ground water/soil remains nearly isothermal throughout the year.
“ground remains…isothermal…”
The heat pump draws heat out of the ground. Over time (years) the amount of available heat declines. Since heat transfer inwards from the earth around “the well” by conduction is extremely slow the resource is replenished too slowly to be truly called renewable. I do not see how fracking could be applied to this particular resource!
Slightly OT.
Replenishment.
All over the world, oil and gas fields are lasting longer than expected. This may of course simply be the result of upward revisions to overly conservative original estimates. But it might be evidence of abiotic hydrocarbons pushing upwards.
The well in Sweden that was drilled to test the idea was disappointing. However further testing would seem a good idea.
Stop it, Dave.
Stereo chemistry proves oil is from biotic processes.
Organic chemistry 231, 1969.
Dave,
Please note that as far as I understand geothermal heat from water (in aquifers) would remain isothermal when supplying heat to some homes. However, it is not clear to me if moist soil would gradually cool down after providing geothermal heat over the years. Keep in mind that if the heat pump is also used for cooling in the summer months, in doing so it provides heat to the moist soil; additionally, moist soil gains some heat from the sun (clear days), from within the earth (by conduction) and probably from rain water. Note too, that the moist soil providing geothermal energy will get heat by conduction from the surrounding (sides and bottom) moist ground.
It is quite complicated….