Who To Believe? AEP Or Your Lying Eyes!
By Paul Homewood
h/t Ian Magness
More gaslighting from AEP!
Readers have been in touch over their heat pump ordeals. Some have given outlandish quotes. Others have been told that their house is too old, or that the technology will not keep them warm enough in this climate.
Allow me to relate my parallel experience in France. Our dilapidated stone farmhouse is a good test case of claims and counter-claims of heat pumps. If they can do a passable job during a French winter in this draughty pre-Revolutionary relic they can work in almost any house anywhere in Britain.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/12/heat-pump-experience-france-farmhouse/
The rest of the article is frankly a load of twaddle, in which he blames the British public’s refusal to have anything to do with the useless things on them falling for the propaganda from the gas mafia!
Basically his argument is that having spent £16,000 on just the heat pump alone, he has still had to install a giant separate water heater, and also still uses wood-burning stoves. And even then his farmhouse is cold!
The wood he gets himself for free from the local forest.
He does not tell us where he lives in France. But unless it is half way up the Alps, the climate will be much milder than in Newcastle.
And he can’t understand why Brits don’t do the same!
Comments are closed.
NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT 
The AEP chateau is heated with wood fires, the heat pump provides background warmth.
He also mentions solar panels but doesn’t go further than saying they power his electric chainsaw. Presumably, to justify the outlay on these, they must do much more than charge a chainsaw battery. Clearly, however, AEP doesn’t want us to know any more about this.
Electric chainsaw, says it all about AEP, useless things, you need a petrol chainsaw with some power.
Typical middle class narrow minded nonsense. We can all afford a second home in France to display
our green credentials can’t we. Other forms of narrow minded twaddle are available of course but heaven knows why the Torygraph employes this idiot.
AEP IS NUTS. No further comment is necessary.
Except that he’s an acolyte of the WEF.
You will own nothing but a dilapidated stone farm house in France, and the money to throw at every kind of heating, and you will be happy. Just like we told you. First, find your farm house…
AEP is ignorant of the concept of false equivalence.
Shows how bright he is, buying a second home in France, not a good move.
Why do all these people live in French farmhouses? Bunch of posers. Eux je deteste.
Hold on there, I have a French farmhouse!
AEP did say a chateau to be fair. Now that is posy.
Now I check he did say farmhouse, old stone, as oposed to new wood.
Because they used to be cheap to buy. The French preferred new builds, so as elderly people died off, their kids didn’t want the houses and they often sat years slowly becoming derelict. So when British people came along and would pay 10 000€ for a pile of stones in a field, they sellers jumped at it.
Spend another 20K to 40K to renovate, install swimming pool and a very nice property was the result.
Keep dreaming, oh credulous child. Work anywhere? I laugh at that. If you include running the strip heat non-stop as working, I pity you. Clearly you have no understanding of thermodynamics.
I posted a comment on the Telegraph article saying that he should stick to writing about things he understands. We might get less twaddle then.
PB – “he should stick to writing about things he understands”
That would be career ending for AEP then?
You can see the utter disconnect with ordinary people in his premise that a dilapidated farmhouse in France is a good test of their practicality and cost.
The Gates-funded Telegraph must pay well for his nonsense for him to be able to afford a second house in France. Just saying’. And not very green of him with all the travel that that entails.
Agreed. He is a cheerleader. “It’s all good!”
A couple of relevant paragraphs
Total cost: €18,900 (£16,225) for a large 12 KW heat pump and a separate 200 litre Thaleos thermodynamic water heater. We should receive around €9,000 in state aid. That money has not arrived yet. Assuming it does, the bill amounts to £8,500 for the two systems
We cheat since we also have wood-burning stoves. I know, this is “problematic”, as they say in climate-land. But the wood comes from fallen oak trees on our own land. We cut them with an electric chainsaw, powered off solar panels. The round-trip carbon emissions are near zero, though pulled forward when compared to letting the wood rot. We are in the deep countryside.
So a heat pump, a Thaleos thermodynamic water heater, a wood burner.
From the Web on thermodynamic water heaters
like heat pumps, the thermodynamic water heater is powered by electricity. The energy consumed is used to run the system that extracts calorific energy from the air to heat the water.
So does he have a dual heat pump system?
All the experts advised against a heat pump.
It is noisier than we expected, given that it is supposedly one of the quietest models at 44 decibels.
Should have included this from the noise paragraph
This is not a problem for us. The machine is at the back of the house. It would be a problem if you had confined space, but then you would also have a smaller model.
“… and a separate … thermodynamic water heater.”
Wow, a thermodynamic water heater!
All effing water heaters are ‘thermodynamic’, they move heat from its source into the water inside the vessel.
His farts are ‘thermodynamic’ – they move heat from inside his body to outside of it.
Which idiots is he trying to bamboozle?
I assumed it was the latest name for what I would call an immersion heater
Glen it appears that this “Thermodynamic” (FFS) unit is a 200litre hot water tank with an integrated air source heat pump AND immersion heater for “indoor” fitting such as a garage or adjoined outbuilding.
https://www-axdispro-com.translate.goog/genie-climatique-confort/586-chauffe-eau-thermodynamique-200l-performer-2-thaleos.html?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc
It must rank as bullshit on a stick!
I lived in a 200 year old French farmhouse in Limousin for nearly 10 years. It had gas central heating, two wood burners, but most of all double glazing and insulated walls.
The wood burners kept the whole house warm and only ever needed one on usually the Esse range which gave a boiling kettle and did most of the cooking. A 70% fill of a 1 tonne GPL tank lasted two years normally hot water and a bit of cooking. In hindsight I should have had the water heating option on the Esse.
The house was at an altitude of about 250 metres. We tended to get the same weather systems as the UK, usually about two or three days behind, usually warmer despite the altitude. I know that the Bordeaux area experiences very similar weather, but warmer still.
‘This has prompted us to stop prevaricating and get on with the task.’
Nah, he’ll never stop lying.
‘the bill amounts to £8,500 for the two systems’
‘The break-even capital outlay is about four years.’
So it’s going to save over 2k pounds a year?
Gamecock doesn’t spend even a thousand a year.
I can’t remember how much our electricity was in France, less than 100€ a month. Wood was bought from a local farmer at 125€ per cord, usually 3 was enough, topped up with some cheaper off cuts from a barrel stave manufacturer at 30€ a cubic metre.
All cut using a petrol chainsaw
No way he will save that much. We have gas heating in France, with a big gas tank buried in the garden. It lasts the winter with hot water as well and cost us €2,000 to fill when gas prices were spiking.
Now look at it this way: IF it got super cold again ( eg 2010-11 ?) we plugged in extra Electric heaters or could have added extra Bottled GAS heaters. What do you do with Eco heating systems ? How do you get more out of a Heat pump? -it is a SYSTEM. If I need more Hydraulic power – I can speed up or get a bigger pump unit by itself. ( or even an Air COMPRESSOR ) without needing to do much about the rest of the system… and I get results. Heat pumps? PV panels or Solar thermal? .. well maybe but not a kwik fix. Local Highstreet has lost all its shops and On-line takes too long.
So just another reason NOT to go down this stupid Eco way.
If our Cattle were housed indoors as Gramps did up until the mid 60’s, then we could get some proper heat from a higher +ve Source temp regardless of outdoor temp. but it is all limited by running 100% with the Temp Diff. & COP. marginally better – but that’s all. Is OK for our Orangerie or Greenhouse / conservatory to avoid freezing, getting more heat than from burning any fuel alone: We are SHIFTING Heat energy – that’s all. SHIFTING / MOVING HEAT. Find fault with that.
How To Save Big On A Heat pump, by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
– First, buy a dilapidated stone farmhouse in France. Bigger subsidies in France.
– Get someone else to pay for half of the heat pump (That’s why you buy in
France).
– Get jackleg contractor to install it (ethical installer refused the job).
– Size it for only a quarter of the house, (12kW vs 45kW).
– Ignore the loss of value in your home by removing heat from 3/4s of it.
– Throw yourself on the mercy (merci?) of French bureaucrats.
‘We should receive around €9,000 in state aid. That money has not arrived yet.’
Maybe you have to be French to get it.
‘It turned out that we qualified for the French scheme since our daughter lives
in the farmhouse and is a French resident.’
Even Captain Renault would see through that.
– Torture English language: ‘for a large 12 KW heat pump.’
Using an adjective to describe the finite is trickery. As opposed to a small 12
kW heat pump. And how can it be ‘large’ when it’s only a quarter of what he
needs?
EAP does comedy.
Ditching gas under net zero will push up household bills, Ofgem admits
Families face extra £43 a year from 2026 amid switch to green alternatives
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/13/ditching-gas-net-zero-push-up-household-bills-ofgem/
£43 a year seems on the low side
Guys, don’t simply dismiss air source heat pumps as there are two system types and one works and the other doesn’t work.
The problems with air to water heat pump systems is of course all too real a case as I have posted many times and I have been lobbying the UK Government for the past 8 years about these issues.
However, this is NOT the case with air to air heat pumps where you simply heat the air in your home. Air to air systems have a much higher coefficiency because you don’t need to heat a denser medium like water and you don’t need electric water pumps running to push all this water around oversized radiators which you must have to replace the regular radiators in a home if you go for the low temperature air to water versions.
Air source heat pumps which simply heat air like fan heaters do work extremely well.
They are half the price of air to water systems to purchase and install.
The UK Government also now offers the incentive of ZERO vat on all equipment and installation costs to have these fitted.
You don’t need radiators, buffer tanks and water pumps.
Air to air systems also provide full air conditioning for cooling in the summer and dehumidification modes as standard.
I can personally testify for these as I have had air to air heat pumps in my home for ten years and I can confirm they work within two to three minutes forcing hot air at between 50c and 70c into any room without the issues that air to water systems have. Your rooms will be at temperature in one tenth of the time it takes using dumb radiators with water and pumps. You also have the option to only heat the rooms where you are at the touch of the remote control or mobile telephone interface.
The Government finally agreed to the years of lobbying last year and included air to air heat pumps in their Green incentives measures by deleting up front the 20% VAT on the total installation costs. That’s a huge incentive which you don’t get with air to water systems.
Believe me, air to air really works and its half the price of air to water which doesn’t work.
In the 1970s I had friends who lived in what was then the New Town of Livingston. They were in a modern terrace. The heating was an electric hot air system, I can’t remember clearly how it worked but I think that the air was blown into rooms at low level but possibly not.
What I do remember was the rooms were never that warm and the system created draughts was noisy and was expensive to run, possibly why it was never warm
Sounds like electric resistance heater.
Ah yes David, you are the chap who last claimed on here that you don’t need a 3 horsepower pump (2,250 watts really?!) on an air to air system that you apparently need for a water system. Could your advocacy possibly be because you are involved on sales of Air to Air systems by any chance?
No, it’s not true what you say Ray, I retired early ten years ago.
The truth is I have used air to air heat pump systems in my home for ten years and you have not. Therefore you don’t have any experience of using them to back up what you are talking about and I do have the experience.
Air to air heat pumps are half the price of air to water systems and do work extremely well in the UK. I can vouch for that.
Air to water systems don’t provide cheap heating and cost the earth to install.
That’s the difference between the two types of systems.
But of course people could allow themselves to be misled by someone like you who has no experience of using domestic air to air heat pumps in the UK and simply passes their own contrived misinformation.
Ah yes the same David Woodcock who claimed “the room floor area about 25m2 and this bedroom system is about 13Btu because there is an adjacent en-suite. ”
You claimed to heat this room on less than 4watts in just 15 minutes – truly spectacularly impossible.
Your words ” pump all the water around the house using a three horse power electric water pump.” 2,250W for a pump?
Do you actually understand any units?
Complete gibberish but you still claim expertise and experience.
No I don’t believe you and I doubt anyone would.
It’s noted that you can’t dispute the points which I raised about domestic air source heat pumps.
1/ Your personal opinion carries little weight and is misleading because you have no experience of using these systems in a domestic environment and therefore have gained no first hand knowledge of their performance. I have.
2/ Air to air domestic systems are much more efficient than air to water systems and do work very well in homes.
3/Air to air systems are about half the price to install than air to water systems.
4/The UK Government discounts the whole of the 20% VAT cost up front on all of the equipment and installation cost of air to air domestic heat pump systems which they don’t do for air to water system installations.
5/ Air to air heat pumps also offer cooling in the summer at the press of one button on the remote control and even dehumidification on the touch of another. Air to water systems don’t offer any of these additional functions.
6/ Air to air heat pumps provide forced air heating within a few minutes whereas air to water systems take ages as they rely on heating a much denser medium and rely on pumps and radiators and convection.
7/ Bob Johnson has also backed me up with his post in this thread where he clearly states from his own personal experience, and I quote his words here; “the new units are very good. I’m not a climate zealot. I’m just providing everyonehere my personalexperience”. “I am no heating expert or scientist, I’m just an end user. I’m saying that heat pumps do work”.
Ray, you need to take on board that you are not an expert, you are only giving out your personal biased theory which is NOT backed up with any real or tangible experience of having used these systems.
You are misinformed others and its no wonder your neighbours didn’t take your advice.
You should at the very leasy be honest and acknowledge what I say about air to air being far superior as thay do not have the negative issues I have listed above which air to water heat pumps do.
The climate isn’t milder than Newcastle in much of France in the winter. In SW France, away from the coast, we get very cold winter nights, often well below freezing. The average low in December is 2 degrees whereas for Newcastle it is 3 degrees. In January and February it is 1 degree but for Newcastle 3 degrees.
Newcastle is a large conurbation by the sea UHI coastal rffect and low altitude. SW France away from the coast normally rural and often well above sea level.
How does Otterburn compare?
I used Newcastle because that’s what Paul uses above to state that: “the climate will be much milder than in Newcastle.”
In the mean time I had a look at Bordeaux, mentioned by AEP in the article as being close to his place.
Average temperatures between November and April vary from Highs between 10 & 17’C lowest high 10′ in January, Lows between 3 & 6’C. Lowest low in the 3 months of winter
Bordeaux is very famous for its wines, something Newcastle upon Tyne isn’t – yet!
For the record:
Mean temp in Newcastle in December is 39F
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_upon_Tyne#Climate
Mean temp in Bordeaux in Dec is 45.9F
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_upon_Tyne#Climate
I appreciate we are supposed to be stupid and conditioned to have the attention span of goldfish but why do we need heat pumps and also for that matter insulation, if as those reliant on the perpetuation of Project Climate Fear for their salaries claim, we have runaway global warming or is it global boiling ( UN idiot in charge), and as a consequence and the UK will soon “suffer” from a Mediterranean climate?
Just asking….
Isn’t the long term goal to reverse climate change/global warming. Logically that’s back to the pre-industrial situation aka the Little Ice Age?
Actually I do not think they have thought anything through because what it says on the tin is not what is inside this politically motivated campaign
Also it is constantly clear that this is all Arts Graduate thinking. To claim that one guy discovering black band iron ore in the Midlands ended the Little Ice Age is too stupid for words. The BBC and the Grauniad have been instrumental in pushing the “since the start of the industrial revolution” meme to get people to link that to global warming eventhough the correct reference should be to the end of the Little Ice Age. Also their asinine 1.5 degrees is based on another number pulled completely out of the air and refers to temperature increase from an ABNORMALLY LOW point which was the end of the Little Ice Age, not an increase about whatever an “ideal” global average may be which is an absurd and meaningless number anyway.
And that’s the problem. Lets say the Earth has a 100,000 year climate cycle. So far, we are well within natural variability. Let’s say it has a 10 year climate cycle. Yes, within natural variability. Anomalies only exist if you pick your cycles so that there are anomalies.
We are well within what can be considered ‘natural variation’. If anyone spends the time to study the longest instrumental mean temperature record which has been continually updated for well over 300 years they will instantly note two points which throw into question the whole CO2 narrative.
Firstly, the 0.8C rise in average temperatures recorded between 1980 and 2010 is NOT exceptional as similar rates of temperature change have been recorded on a number of occasions over the same time frame. In fact between 1700 and 1730 a temperature rise of double what we have experienced was recorded.
Secondly, over the past 20 years the rate of temperature rise has declined to just 0.2C per decade which demonstrates there is no runaway warming as the MSM and Governments are misinforming us. This slowing of temperature rise also clearly demonstrates there is no clear link with CO2 rise being responsible because the rate of CO2 increase throughout the last 20 years has not slowed, it has increased.
Also, “anomalies” exaggerate amplitude.
1.5 degree rise sounds way bigger than rise from 284K to 285.5K.
As the house has a wood burner he could, perhaps, have fitted a flue heat exchanger and achieved the same result at a lower cost and quicker return on investment.
https://www.recoheat.co.uk/flue-pipes-how-it-works
Where’s the virtue-signalling though?
The article is a lot of tosh.
“ We did not need temperatures above 18 degrees.. Ever.”
18C is not very warm.
I lived in France 2001 to 2021. In 2014 I had a heat pump (air/water) installed in a largish, stone-built, old farmhouse (double glazing) with underfloor (tiles) heating served by an oil boiler. My reason for changing was the high price of oil – 33 cents per litre when I arrived, around 85 cents to 1.08€ a litre subsequently. (Use 2 000 litres + per year depending on the Winter.)
I had no difficulty locating a company to supply and install a machine. Perhaps not surprising it was a company that specialised in commercial refrigeration – heat pumps are just fridges in reverse. The unit was Toshiba.
Someone surveyed the property, asked me what minimum inside temp I wanted… 20C, then recommended a unit. It had two large fans and was self-contained with compressor & heat exchange all in the same (large) cabinet. 20C was guaranteed down to -7C. The max output would be 55C.
The underfloor is set to stop heating input when the return temperature is just above 40C, so the heat pump was ideal. It was recommended to keep the oil boiler for the hot water (it would be cheaper) and as back-up in case the heat pump faulted.
Contrary to popular British belief, France gets very cold during Winter. I was South West and nighttime temps below freezing were usual, and not much higher daytime. However the Winters are cold for a shorter period than in the UK.
I found the set up was quite satisfactory even during cold nights. Noise: yes two fans make a noise but also cause vibration. Not intrusive indoors, but noticeable.
Cost: installed 11 500€ of which the equipment was around 9 000€ – there was a 25% grant towards equipment cost.
It halved my heating costs. Piped gas is not available in much of France except big towns and cities.
From my experiences in France, just looking at the small heat pumps being on offer in the UK, I doubt they would be suitable except in a small flat perhaps.
Also, cost of electricity even for heat pump will nit compete favourably with gas for equal heat supply. A small heat pump unit will be cheaper to run, but won’t be as warm.
You don’t need piped gas. We have a big tank, filled twice a year, takes about 20 minutes and we don’t even have to be there. The tank is buried and is invisible. And the winters where I am in the SW get cold in December and last through March, so pretty similar to the UK.
I understand that – the point is LPG is much more expensive than piped gas and not much advantage, price-wise, compared to oil.
A real world, somewhat worrying, example. My home is the last on the gas main here. Neighbours have a variety of LPG, oil, solid fuel and even Economy 7 heaters. One (on oil) specifically asked for my “professional” opinion on installing an ASHP. I spent well over an hour explaining how the system would work in reality, how expensive it would prove to be to run and ultimately he would regret having one installed.
To my surprise just a month later the installers were there. Sheepishly he explained to me he was persuaded by the company by referring to “official” government guidance. The sales guy also referred to naysayers even saying along the lines of “I bet he was an older engineering type….the worst”
So now, two years on, the neighbour is saddled with a system that alone is costing him over double what the old oil system was even a today’s prices. He is additionally having to buy logs almost equivalent in price to his previous oil bills, and he is regularly running an immersion heater and using his “back up” electric instant shower. His previous annual total £1800 annual energy bills (oil and gas combined) are now, all in, well over £5,000. To make matters worse the system is annoyingly loud and pissing off his neighbours.
He has had the decency to apologise to me and admits he is telling everyone he knows not to follow his example …but, guess what, two of them have ignored him and gone ahead!
As they often say ‘you can’t fix stupid’ and it is worrying that these people can vote in elections – excusing your neighbour that has repented his sin.
And his experience of soaring costs matches the example that appeared in The Mail years ago when oil was around $120 a barrel. The writer was doubtful and refused and was rewarded with a 50% cut in heating oil as OPEC and Russia were trying to kill US fracking with low prices. His neighbour went heat pump and got doubled electricity costs.
The sheep are easily persuaded into the pen!
A crucial point must be the cost of electricity. With France having a huge nuclear fleet it produces electricity at a much lower cost. The UK is battling with Germany to have some of the most expensive electricity in the world.
Let us look at – ‘We cheat since we also have wood-burning stoves. I know, this is “problematic”, as they say in climate-land. But the wood comes from fallen oak trees on our own land. We cut them with an electric chainsaw, powered off solar panels.’ Stihl along with Husqvarna leads the chainsaw market. First thing you notice on their website is how small the saws are and how they are described for small landowner use for trimming and cutting firewood. The top of the range – yours for £820 if you are starting out including battery & charger – is described as giving maximum performance at all times. Really? From a battery?
It comes with a 14 inch bar which is the same as my Husqvarna although I could go up to 16 inch if I was sawing softwood. Stihl say it can fell small trees. But AEP refers to oak trees that have a habit of being quite large. Good luck using a 14 inch saw on one of them. And it won’t be for very long as the battery lasts for 48 minutes. Yes, Stihl reckons that it enough time to get the job done. Best get another battery – yours for £275. For £822 you can get a petrol saw with a 16 inch bar and capable of taking an 18 inch bar.
I have a small modern holiday house in France near the lake Spanish border. I have an air con unit which works in reverse to warm air. It hardly works from late September to late April. Winters can be colder there than in England. I use an excellent radiant paraffin heater and electric fan heater. The water is heated by nuclear electricity overnight.
Omit ‘lake’ – my smart was not.
Anyone know AEP’s email address?
European heat pump sales are collapsing
Quarterly sales figures of heat pumps in Europe are in a slump amid a 14% drop compared to last year’s quarter, which the industry says was caused by political uncertainty and dropping gas prices.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/european-heat-pump-sales-are-collapsing/
He could’ve made a career covering the Clintons…
wonder why he didn’t??
Manchester ditch ULEZ charges – tucked away on the BBC
I don’t live in France nor in the UK, I’m in Canada. Winter temperatures here can be as cold as -30°C. The heat pump I own will work to -20°C. I do have a secondary heating system (gas system) that works when it gets really cold (below-20°C). It’s true that heat pumps become more inefficient as it gets colder. However the new units are very good. I’m not a climate zealot, I’m just providing everyone here my personal experience. Furthermore I’m not a heating expert or scientist, I’m just an end user. I’m saying that heat pumps do work. If you’re trying to heat a leaky old farmhouse or any building that has inadequate insulation any heating system (gas, oil, electrical-including heat pump) will struggle to heat.
Do us a favour Bob.
Can you give us a summary of your system – eg area of your house, state of insulation, size of boiler, cost of installation, energy usage, running costs etc.
Also is it a water heating system?
Because all of the official assessments I have seen have suggested that what your claim is impossible with an ordinary heat pump of affordable size in the UK