Britain’s e-bus ticking timebomb: How nearly TWO THOUSAND electric buses worth £800m face urgent recall over fears they could see burst into flames
By Paul Homewood
h/t Patsy Lacey
From The Mail:
Safety watchdogs have ordered the recall of almost 2,000 electric buses over fears they can catch fire if left unattended.
The Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency has warned operators who use the Alexander Dennis Enviro200 and Enviro400 single and double decker buses of the critical safety issue.
The buses are currently operational across the UK, with more than 600 in London and a further 100 in Manchester.
All of the affected vehicles were manufactured between May 3, 2019 and February 6, 2024. They all contain batteries supplied by Chinese firm BYD.
Initial investigations suggest the fault may be in the air conditioning and heating system. The alert was issued following a scare on board one of the buses – which can cost up to £450,000 each – putting the value of the entire fleet at £800m.
At present, there is no permanent solution to prevent future fires. Instead, operators using the high-tech buses are warned to ‘switch off the Hipsacold HVAC system when the vehicle is left unattended’.
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NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT 
Be sure to wear running shoes if boarding e-buses.
Clickbait. That article would not have been written if the defective HVAC systems had been fitted to conventional vehicles. The fire risk is not related to the motors or traction batteries. It also states that the risk arises if the HVAC is not turned off when the bus is parked up, i.e out of service with no passengers aboard.
“The fire risk is not related to the motors or traction batteries.”
What is it related to then? I am curious as to how the Heating Ventilation And Air Conditioning system of any vehicle can burst into flames while the vehicle is parked up. Does the vehicle turn itself on? Which component reaches an ignition temperature, and why, and what fuel is ignited as a result? Are there no circuit breakers for when the electrics malfunction?
I once had an air-conditioning unit on a new car explode as I moved off. Heck of a bang. Heck of a scare. Heck of a lot of white powder everywhere. No fire.
I’ve never had nor heard of the HVAC on any of my cars or any car catching fire. Of course all of mine have a switch and circuitry that turns that off unless I set it to ACC. Maybe these busses can be retrofit to off-on and no motion switches. They seem like darned expensive weather control toys.
Dave, Unfortunately the article does not give any detail on the potential cause of a fire in the HVAC unit. According to the company’s website, there are two systems on the bus – one for the passenger space and a small one for the driver. They utilise heat pump technology so the compressor is electrically driven, unlike the motor drive in a conventional vehicle. We will have to wait for more info to learn the hows and whys of the problem.
Yes, but once the bus does catch fire this will be much worse, and harder to put out, because of the lithium batteries catching fire.
Chris P; If the DM article is accurate (!), these buses use Lithium-Iron-Phosphate batteries. According to Wiki, these are much more robust than those using Lithium, Nickel and Cobalt and are not prone to thermal runaway. Of course that does not mean they won’t burn and it’s not clear whether they can be extinguished but it seems to be much less severe than with LNC. We don’t have much detail but it may well be that the HVAC system would be located high up in the vehicle, away from exhausts, etc whereas the batteries are under the floor towards the rear.
Nonsense, if the defective HVAC systems had been fitted to conventional vehicles or even buildings and the same or similar models kept bursting into flames people would be talking about it. There are many example in the past of manufacture/ design faults causing fires in conventional vehicles.
The problem we have is lithium battery fires are more dangerous than burning hydrocarbon fuels since they are so difficult to extinguish & the smoke is so toxic. Imagine if this happens in a tunnel or underground car park.
Thats not a solution as I suspect they have to pre heat or cool the buses when they are plugged in to avoid reducing the range. Then there are many places with bus routes were buses park up for an extended period (15 min+) with passengers aboard e.g at a bus or train station & even out of town retail parks where it long enough that you could get a quick 15 min charge in & probably top up the heating and cooling.
I wonder if a thermal store would make more sense than a HVAC system weight wise.
Disagree about the “newsworthiness” of this story. EV fires get a lot of coverage and the way the article emphasises the nature of the drive train reinforces the press’ predilection. As you say, there are many instances of faults causing fires in ICE vehicles but they get relatively little coverage outside the motoring press.
Per my earlier reply, the fire risk with LFP batteries does seem to be greatly reduced compared to other chemistries.
The charging requirements are pretty massive: 2 x 112 kW feeds which must be expensive and require significant infrastructure. Putting in such facilities outside the base just for occasional top-ups seems unlikely.
I agree it a bit sensationalised but electric vehicles safety issue get a lot of coverage because of public interest particularly due to the issue with E-bikes as it not hard to find people flying down pavements with them and due to the increasing number of fires and the innocent victims (yes it sounds bad people will fear for their child dying in a fire cause by someone else E-bike especially in flats and houseshares) and the fire brigades clear unease to lithium battery fires & political muzzle.
Those fire tend to be less spectacular (optics matters – it why people are more afraid of flying even though they are more likely to die on the way to the airport) and easy to extinguish while lithium battery fires tend to happen during the night or in confined space like a bus or a tube train. It also doesn’t help that people who are generally concerned about how a car park could be damaged to the point of collapse by a fire were called conspiracy theorists https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/luton-airport-fire-diesel-car-electric-b2429063.html#comments-area (unfortunately its paywalled) and inferred to be similar to holocaust deniers by many elsewhere in the media. When all they were doing was wondering if lessons from a previous car park fire https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-42533830 had being enacted, if there is a defect in the design or safety issue e.g. RACC and the make and model of the vehicle (it was a Land Rover in the Liverpool car park fire) which was given free last time. The fact that some parts of the press went out of the way to tell use it was a diesel engined vehicle but not the model was very strange and even shut down people who asked if it was a hybrid model with a lithium battery or if they were any EV in the car park. Personally I suspect there are some design issues with many multi storey car parks in the UK.
Iron-Phosphate batteries reduce the issue with thermal runway yes but I suspect the fire hazard in these buses is probably a electrical fault igniting the flammable refrigerant used in the HVAC system. So if the battery still burns in a fire the difficulty in extinguishing it compared to burning hydrocarbon fuels if we think of tunnels & underground car park.
I would depend on the route but it may actually be easier to add larger chargers away from the base e.g. out of town retail park (where an extended stop already exists) especially if the retail park decided to put in public EV chargers although as many bus networks in the UK were originally tram and trolleybus routes and in many towns electrification was planned around providing power for trams so the medium voltage part of the distribution network may still be in good strategic places.
I think the real issue here is the climate change & net zero hysteria and the grifter & snake oil salesman taking advantage of it are not looking at the problem rationally and worse still the vast amount of public money being blindly thrown at the problem and technology not fit for purpose is being pushed onto the public.
Rationally trolleybuses with a small backup battery/ engine would make more sense and be cheaper than battery electric buses combined with a light weight electric tricycles with roofs that are portable like push chairs so you can mix and match it with public transport would reduce the dependance on cars and the need for multi-car households.
PlatformZed; I think we’re on the same page – or at least in the same chapter.
I agree that lithium battery fires are high-profile and suspect you are right about a possible cause of the potential HVAC fire in these buses.
We need to know more about the behaviour of LFP batteries in fires. It seems pretty clear that they don’t spontaneously ignite – I saw a video of a drill going right through a module which merely smouldered. I suspect they do still burn because, if they didn’t, there would have been banner headlines about this new, “fire-proof” battery tech. Certainly the present generation of EV batteries do add to fire risk and the difficulty of suppression, even if they are not the original source of the conflagration.
Yes, all these “cash-strapped” councils are very free with our money when it comes to these schemes and they are lambs to the slaughter when dealing with some of the promoters out there – look at how so many have been drawn into investments in commercial property, solar farms and the like.
Whilst the motive battery might not be the root cause it significantly increases the likelihood and severity of fire. This has been proven many times.
Safety watchdogs have ordered the recall of almost 2,000 electric buses over fears they can catch fire if left unattended.
One wonders how being attended prevents fire ????
Voodoo spells, black magic, divining rods. Perhaps if you park them on Ley Lines it makes a difference?
I wonder if the buses have scouts? Do they talk to each other to check to see if anyone is around?
A few years ago I read that Coventry was planning to replace its bus fleet with EV Buses at a cost of £15M !! I thought then, they could make an expensive bonfire. I note also that since that announcement Coventry Council has now gone the same way as Birmingham.
What I want to know is where does the Council Tax go? Most councils seem to neglect the infrastructure judging by the conditions in Derby. Although they had to pay £90 million on a loan for the refurbishment of the HQ and £35 milion refurbishing the Market Hall. Some more spent on flood prevention might have bee a good idea, although they worked well according to the council
https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/derby-city-centre-city-effectively-8848271
oooh the irony. e-bus defeated by a heat pump
This makes no sense at all – why would the HVAC be more likely to catch fire when the vehicle is unattended? Does it wait and watch to see nobody it around? If the HVAC is working then it is just as likely - if not more so given hours in service must presumably be more than those left running in the depot – to catch fire when in service. I presume the system is powered by the battery in the absence of an engine? To start a fire you need an ignition source of either a spark or high temperature. The article provides more questions than answers.
Actual recall details here.
https://www.check-vehicle-recalls.service.gov.uk/recall-type/vehicle/make/BYD/model/BYD%20AD%20ENVIRO200/year/2020/recalls
As Gamecock has pointed out above, it really does seem weird wording to say “if left unattended” as if someone being around magically makes a difference and stops a fire starting. Just don’t get it.
HI,
Some BDY ev batteries DO contain a heat pump, (output stage), to heat / cool the lithium battery to enable it to function. other manufacturers just use air blast and resistive heating. All EV batteries must have a temperature management system
Quote>
Other core features at the heart of the e-Platform 3.0 are the BYD Blade Battery and the high-efficiency heat pump.
Featuring the industry’s first direct cooling and heating system for power batteries, increasing thermal efficiency by up to 20% in the winter, the innovative system leverages the residual heat from surroundings. With intelligent thermal management, efficiency is achieved in a wide range of temperatures with excellent low temperature driving range.
<< end quote
The question I would ask is what powers the heat pump when the ev is not on charge? Does the heat pump run continuously in the background, even when the vehiclwe is parked up?
Cheers Patrick
cheers
Patrick
Patrick; most EVs use heat pumps these days as part of the battery’s TMS, as you say. However the problematic heat pumps in these buses are part of the HVAC system, not the battery TMS – if the article is accurate.
At present, there is no permanent solution to prevent future fires.
So all those buses will have to be replaced, or services cut?
Are you too skeert to ride an electric bus?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/03/02/drivers-scared-of-change-electric-cars-polestar-tesla-rival/
The chief executive of European electric car maker Polestar has claimed drivers “scared of change” are to blame for the slowing uptake of electric vehicles (EVs).
Nothing works better in business than blaming the deficiencies of your customers for poor sales rather than the deficiencies of your product.
“Nothing works better in business than blaming…your customers…”
Sarcasm intended, I presume. However, indeed, nothing works better for the modern caste of business and government MANAGERS than blaming anything and everything in the world – except themselves.
The Peter Principle was originally that everyone rises to their level of incompetence. In the present world of smoke and mirrors, the modern version must be that your career really takes off WHEN you reach that level.
My theory is that the elites see these people are willing to lie to advance the cause; they have no soul.
I believe Macron, Trudeau, and Newsom are auditioning for positions in Klaus’ New World Order.
“they could see burst into flames”
?
Ol’ Darren, a professional writer, seems to have trouble writing.
And I doubt they are worth £800m any more. If they ever were.
which can cost up to £450,000 each – putting the value of the entire fleet at £800m
Price. Not value. Not worth.