Skip to content

Why won’t Chris Packham have a real debate on climate?

April 25, 2024
tags:

By Paul Homewood

 

 

image

On Sunday, the BBC did something unusual. It invited Luke Johnson, a climate contrarian, to join a panel with Laura Kuenssberg to discuss net zero. As followers of this debate will know, the BBC’s editorial policy unit issued guidance to staff in 2018 saying: ‘As climate change is accepted as happening, you do not need a “denier” to balance the debate.’ Although it did allow for exceptions to this rule: ‘There are occasions where contrarians and sceptics should be included within climate change and sustainability debates.’ Presumably this was one such occasion.

The other two people on the panel – Chris Packham and Layla Moran – are members of the climate emergency camp, so there was no pretence of ‘balance’. At one point, the exchange between Johnson and Packham became heated and when the latter invoked the recent downpour in Dubai as well as extensive wildfires in the ‘global south’, as evidence of the effect of anthropogenic global warming, Johnson challenged him to come up with evidence that extreme weather was caused by carbon emissions.

‘It doesn’t come from Toby Young’s Daily Septic [sic], which is basically put together by a bunch of professionals with close affiliations to the fossil fuel industry,’ replied Packham. ‘It comes from something called science.’ This was hailed by Packham’s side as a slam-dunk rebuttal of Johnson’s argument. The Canary wrote up the exchange under the following headline: ‘Chris Packham just humiliated Kuenssberg’s preposterous climate-denying guest.’ The London Economic, which describes itself as ‘a digital newspaper with a metropolitan mindset’, summarised it as follows: ‘With science on his side, Chris Packham was able to deliver a devastating put-down when challenged on the evidence of climate change.’

I can’t help thinking Packham’s ‘devastating put-down’ would have been more effective if it had been true. The people who put together the Daily Sceptic, a news publishing site I’ve edited since 2020, have no connections to the fossil fuel industry. If Packham and his allies are so convinced of the rightness of their cause, why invent reasons to discredit their opponents? A clip from the show including this claim was posted on Twitter by BBC Politics and retweeted by Laura Kuenssberg, getting, at last count, 845,000 views. And to think the BBC launched a multi-million-pound department last year to ‘address the growing threat of disinformation’.

What about Packham’s claim that ‘something called science’ provides all the evidence we need that extreme weather events are caused by burning fossil fuels? There’s really no such thing as ‘the science’, as in a consensus viewpoint among scientists that’s so incontrovertible no serious debate is possible. All scientific theories are just hypotheses and, as such, subject to challenge. Indeed, if it were illegitimate to challenge these theories, progress in science wouldn’t be possible. To pretend that the science of what causes extreme weather is ‘settled’ when it’s the subject of ongoing dispute suggests that Packham and his pals aren’t capable of having a proper grown-up discussion.

Full story here.

Toby Young actually understates his complaint, as there is no evidence that weather is actually becoming more extreme- something the IPCC admit.

It is very easy for these conmen to claim it is, and simply justify it with a statement that “scientists say”. But as Toby points out, they are unable to back it up with actual data and evidence.

The idea, fraudulently circulated by grant funded climate scientists, that global warming means extreme weather has always been by definition absurd. After all, does this mean that the Earth’s climate was ideal during the Ice Age, which would be the logical conclusion?

The simple fact is that there has always been unpleasant weather, storms, floods, droughts, and glaciation. If Chris Packham can provide evidence that these have all gotten worse in recent times, then let him present it.

If he can’t, the BBC should apologise for broadcasting false statements, exclude him from all future debates on climate change, and ban him from making any further such political comments if he wishes to remain as an employee.

51 Comments
  1. April 25, 2024 7:46 pm

    The following from Steerpike was also on the Spectator website:

    More bad times at the BBC. The Corporation is in hot water yet again following last week’s episode of Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg. During a discussion on whether extreme weather events are caused by carbon emissions, TV eco-warrior Chris Packham launched into one of his patented rants when asked by businessman Luke Johnson to provide some evidence. Packham sneered:

    It doesn’t come from Toby Young’s Daily Septic [sic], which is basically put together by a bunch of professionals with close affiliations to the fossil fuel industry. It comes from actually something called science.

    But in his haste to put down Johnson, Packham appears to have blundered. For Young, a longtime Spectator contributor, has now submitted a complaint to the Beeb over the ‘false and defamatory’ claim. Writing on Twitter/X, the editor-in-chief of the Daily Sceptic said that:

    Neither I nor any of the other people who put it together have any affiliations to the fossil fuel industry, close or otherwise. I have never been paid money by any fossil fuel companies, nor has the editor, Dr Will Jones, and we’ve never run an ad on the site from any fossil fuel companies. Chris Packham was not challenged by anyone on the programme about this false allegation.

    He pointed out that the clip of Packham making this allegation had been posted by the official BBC Politics X account on Sunday, despite Young tweeting that same day that the clip was false. Four days on, that video has now been viewed more than 850,000 times, but, at the time of writing, the BBC are still yet to remove it.

    Will an apology to Toby now be forthcoming? The Beeb told Mr S simply: ‘We have received a complaint and are looking into it.’ How long will that take eh?

    Chris Packham says at the end of this clip that the Daily Sceptic is put together by people with close connections to the oil industry. A flat out lie. None of the editors have any such connections. You’d think someone so quick to sue others for libel would be more cautious.

  2. Robert Taylor permalink
    April 25, 2024 7:48 pm

    If “the science” is settled then cut off all funding. Why spend more money researching something where there is near absolute consensus ie that all “scientists” agree on? Or “the science” isn’t settled. Which is it?

    • Nigel Sherratt permalink
      April 25, 2024 7:59 pm

      You monster! How is Mike Mann to shop at Wegman’s (aisle 9) and schmooze with Leonardo? ‘Green’ v ‘Fossil Fuel’ funding is approx. 1000:1, why would it be otherwise with a trillion dollar scam to keep on the road. ‘Fossil Fuel’ doesn’t need to fund shills, hydrocarbon use increases year on year because that’s what civilisation needs to progress.

      • gezza1298 permalink
        April 26, 2024 11:22 am

        I think your ratio is way out. It is far worse than 1000:1 as a recent post looking at the tired lame lie the ecofascists keep trotting out about Big Oil showed. In trying to quantify the Big Oil funding an ecofascist group went as far as including advertising spend. Think about it for a moment. Haven’t ads here for BP and Shell been banging the Net Zero drum? So they could only scrape up a dubious few hundred thousand in comparison to all the fascist billionaires and their ‘charity foundations’ that chuck $billions to the ecomob and that’s before we start on all the taxpayer cash that is chucked at activists like the MetOrifice etc.

      • Nigel Sherratt permalink
        April 26, 2024 11:26 am

        You’re probably right, I haven’t checked recently, 1000:1 is quite enough for me!

    • April 25, 2024 8:48 pm

      Terms like settled science” and “scientific consensus” are political inventions by people with at best an education in the Arts. Science is a journey not a destination. As soon as I hear either of those or the asinine epithet “denier” applied to people who think critically, I know I am dealing with someone who has not a clue what they are shouting in defence of. The fact that there exists NO empirical data based science to support the CO2 temperature control knob is a scandal of historical proportions, made all the more absurd given the way the worshipers of the climate god pretend there is, throw about the word “science” as if the word it’s self carries some kind of self affirming authority.

      I have made this statement quite a few times but it is worth repeating as it highlights the level of deceit and shear corruption in the invented climate industry.

      “There exists no statistically significant empirical data of any kind to support the claim that C02 returned to the Carbon Cycle by the actions of man since the end of the Little Ice Age, can in any measurable be shown to be responsible for all or any part of the current welcome warming, the fourth such warming in recent human history”.

      No empirical data means NO SCIENCE Packham so please DESIST from using the term science in conjunction with the religiously fronted left wing political hoax you are championing.

  3. Nigel Sherratt permalink
    April 25, 2024 7:49 pm

    BBC should apologise for Packham’s (no doubt hydrocarbon based) shirt!

  4. sensescaper permalink
    April 25, 2024 7:52 pm

    Packham is a waste of rations.
    He displaced highly experienced and capable rural and ecological presenters with his politically correct BBC boxes checked and has delivered nothing from farming to conservation.
    The only time I agreed with him was over the stupidity of HS/2 – and he didn’t even manage to stop a single blade of grass from being obliterated in it’s onward path.

    • Adam Gallon permalink
      April 25, 2024 8:47 pm

      He’s twigged that Drax is a big Green scam.

      • sensescaper permalink
        April 25, 2024 10:58 pm

        Wood pellets in Drax was a very stupid idea.
        Demolishing coal-fired power stations is an even more stupid idea.
        Germany took all their coal-fired stations off-line some years ago – and then discovered they could not meet energy demands with ‘renewables’ – so had to re-commission them.
        UK cannot do that – as they are demolished. We have no contingency at all now.
        No one protested that demolishing coal fired power stations instead of de-commissioning them was foolish – but could have done.
        Trouble with Packham, and Emma Thompson, and all the other media types is they aren’t energy experts. They are celebrities – and people seem to be listening to celebrities not experts.
        That concerns me.
        I’m not alone.

  5. It doesn't add up... permalink
    April 25, 2024 7:57 pm

    I seriously doubt whether Packham would prove any more knowledgeable than Jim Dale were he required to debate climate properly.

    I noted that during the QT rant by the Green Deny-er posted here recently she asked what Tice’s scientific qualifications were. I looked up hers: she worked for a Bristol based wind industry consultancy as a “wind engineer” following a Durham engineering degree before shifting to green politics, presumably because her career wasn’t progressing. I suspect she might have a slightly more informed opinion on the pattern of stresses on wind turbine blades – but I wonder how much she really knows about climate science.

  6. devonblueboy permalink
    April 25, 2024 8:02 pm

    Packham is a classic example of an individual who believes in his own publicity and consequently cannot allow him to accept any debate that challenges his fixed view. Shouting repeatedly and thus avoiding the debate is his only defence. He is a bear of very little brain no more, no less.

  7. tomo permalink
    April 25, 2024 8:55 pm

    be like playing chess with a pidgeon.

    Stalks around like he owns the place, knocks the pieces over + craps a lot and then flounces off to enjoy the adulation of his mates

    • christreise permalink
      April 26, 2024 8:26 am

      Coincidentally the very definition of a “consultant, “, another bane in the life of the ordinary man! (/woman)

  8. mervhob permalink
    April 25, 2024 9:00 pm

    Computer simulations are not ‘science’. Anymore than the pronostigations of Claudius Ptolemy predicting the future motions of the planets using epicycles, deferent and equants was ‘science’. We have fallen into the sloppy mindset of believing that anything that constitutes ‘complicated’ causes our minds to glaze over. As the good Sir Isaac said, ‘hypothesis non fingo!’ when Will Stukeley said that gravity was a fundamental property of matter. Newton knew that was just an approximation to reality, based on some limited and incomplete observations.

    Singular models based on a singular hypothesis of a cause cannot be complete, however deeply the belief is held by individuals. We are still struggling to decode the mysteries of a pendulum clock, 367 years after it was invented and applied by Christiaan Huyghens. If ‘science’ and ‘mathematics’ cannot completely accomplish that for a relatively simple mechanism, what hope is there for the abtruse non-linearities of climate?

    • David Wojick permalink
      April 26, 2024 1:17 am

      Properly understood simulations play a major role in science but it is on the theory side. Given a hypothesis one derives observable predictions that can be tested against observation. Simulations are that sort of derivation.

      The real problem is that the hypothesis is so elaborate that the central thesis is almost untouchable. This problem was a major point of discussion when I was a grad student in analytic philosophy of science in the late 60s. It is a general problem in the modern science of complex systems. AGW is just an extreme case.

      Ptolemy was a great scientist, trying to find the way the Earth centered solar system worked, as that was the accepted paradigm of his day. We still say the sun rises and sets. The sun centered system was not generally accepted by astronomers until the 1700’s.

  9. Sean Galbally permalink
    April 25, 2024 9:43 pm

    Most people accept thst climate changes. It always has and always will do BUT it is not man made and cannot be changed by man.

    • David Wojick permalink
      April 26, 2024 1:19 am

      The problem is that when an alarmists says climate change they mean human caused dangerous climate change. Same for global warming.

  10. jeremy23846 permalink
    April 25, 2024 9:49 pm

    In 1931 100 scientists wrote a book saying that Einstein was wrong about relativity. No doubt today they would have told him the science was “settled,” and that he was obviously funded by aliens supporting space time.

    • Peter MacFarlane permalink
      April 26, 2024 10:55 am

      I seem to remember that Einstein’s response was “Why 100? One would have been enough, if he’d been right.”

      That is science.

    • Nigel Sherratt permalink
      April 26, 2024 12:11 pm

      They objected to ‘Jewish Physics’ in particular. ‘Othering’ is not a new tactic. It seems to be particularly favoured by tyrannies.

  11. tomo permalink
    April 25, 2024 10:05 pm

    • Nigel Sherratt permalink
      April 26, 2024 12:13 pm

      Lodge a complaint, easy to do, see daily Sceptic site. You’ll get brushed off of course but volume is important. That shirt again, my eyes!

  12. April 25, 2024 10:09 pm

    Completely independently of this, I complained to the BBC about Packham using his BBC profile to further his own personal vviews and not those of the license fee paying public. I cited this Guardian article as an example.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/apr/20/chris-packham-joins-environmental-activists-in-mock-funeral-procession

    Normally they take weeks/months to respond but this time just 2 days later….

    BC Complaints <bbc_complaints_website@contact.bbc.co.uk>

    24 Apr 2024, 16:22 (1 day ago)

    Reference CAS-7808094-Y4X8L9 

    Dear Mr Sanders,

    Thank you for contacting us and we’re sorry to hear you have concerns to contact us about.

    We note you mention Chris Packham’s personal campaign work.  

    Whilst Chris Packham presents Springwatch on BBC Two he is a naturalist and broadcaster who works for other TV broadcasters, including Channel 4, Channel 5, National Geographic and Sky Arts.  
     
    The BBC of course recognises there is always the possibility that the external non-BBC public expression of opinion or activities of someone who presents a programme on the BBC could potentially be seen as compromising the BBC’s impartiality.  We therefore have guidelines in place to ensure that the external interests of presenters on the BBC do not affect the BBC’s integrity or overlap with the work they do on the BBC.  Each case has to be judged on its merits and we carefully monitor our content.  

    Nevertheless, we have shared your concerns with the relevant BBC staff and your complaint has been included on our complaints report and shared with senior management. 

    We hope this addresses your complaint however should you wish to pursue this further there are details below for how you can do that.

    Kind regards,

    BBC Complaints

    I am still awaiting responses to many complaints of factual inaccuracy going back to January but miraculously my rather more subjective claim was responded to almost instantly. Looks like they are rehearsing their responses these days.

    p.s. On a personal level I consider Chris Packham to be one of the most evil creatures Satan ever spawned. Come the revolution……….

    • glenartney permalink
      April 25, 2024 10:31 pm

      I hope you’re going to appeal then go to the ECU.

      I noticed that the Complaints unit now don’t address the Complaint in their first response. Just repeat what the article was about. I have started going to the ECU as a matter of course.

      I agree 100% with your assessment of Packham.

      • April 25, 2024 11:01 pm

        I certainly will!

      • Nigel Sherratt permalink
        April 26, 2024 11:31 am

        Yes, escalation essential, first response is always brush off.

    • gezza1298 permalink
      April 26, 2024 11:43 am

      BBC and Integrity…hmmm.

    • Dave Gardner permalink
      April 26, 2024 1:12 pm

      I’m afraid you’re wasting your time there Ray. I can think of an example of a BBC employee, Jeremy Clarkson, who was as active as Chris Packham on the climate change issue, but with the difference that Clarkson was opposing it in various newspaper articles that he was producing at the time. About twenty years ago, Clarkson could have been regarded as the most prominent AGW sceptic in the UK. The BBC doesn’t stop its employees, particularly its prominent employees, expressing political opinions provided they are not involved in presenting the news.

      Some Liberal Democrat MP called Tom Brake went as far as tabling an ‘early day motion’ back in 2005 about Clarkson and another prominent AGW sceptic around that time, Michael O’Leary (the boss of Ryanair). The motion had 19 supporters in the House of Commons.

      “MESSRS JEREMY CLARKSON AND MICHAEL O’LEARY”

      EDM (Early Day Motion) 954: tabled on 03 November 2005

      https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/29284

      Text of the motion:

      “That this House regrets the curious and misguided attitude that Messrs Jeremy Clarkson and Michael O’Leary hold in respect of the real and major threat posed by climate change; notes recent attempts by environmental campaigners to draw attention to Mr Clarkson’s poor environmental record; invites Mr Clarkson and Mr O’Leary to submit evidence to any future Environmental Audit Committee inquiry into climate change; and offers to provide Messrs Clarkson and O’Leary with the guidance they need to become better global citizens and to embrace their social and environmental responsibilities.”

      • April 26, 2024 1:56 pm

        Have to disagree with you on that one Dave. Carol Vorderman walked before being pushed.

  13. Gamecock permalink
    April 25, 2024 10:55 pm

    ‘As climate change is accepted as happening, you do not need a “denier” to balance the debate.’

    Well, actually, you do. They lie. They know they lie. It’s not a debate.

    A debate is a discussion about a subject on which people have different views.

    • David Wojick permalink
      April 26, 2024 12:51 am

      I think most alarmists believe what they say, just like most skeptics. The debate is both complex and real. ( I have been tracking it since 1992.)

      • Gamecock permalink
        April 26, 2024 12:59 am

        There is no debate. Different views are NOT ALLOWED.

      • David Wojick permalink
        April 26, 2024 2:22 am

        They are not allowed in a few major arenas but there are active debates all over the place. CFACT, WUWT and JoNova comments all feature debates. CFACT is nothing but. There are also a lot of YouTube debates. So I am not following you. Are you just talking about the BBC?

      • Gamecock permalink
        April 26, 2024 2:34 am

        Correct. I quoted BBC and commented.

        BBC uses ‘debate’ to convey a meaning that doesn’t exist.

  14. David Wojick permalink
    April 26, 2024 12:48 am

    This strikes me as a case of “Ask a stupid question and you get a stupid answer.” Asking for the (complex) evidence is impossible to answer in a debate format, so he got a diverting attack response. He should have said he had looked at the science and there simply were no extreme events that were getting worse and the IPCC agrees.

  15. Terence Carlin permalink
    April 26, 2024 9:15 am

    Wouldn’t it be better for Toby Young to launch a legal action for deformation against Packham and the BBC I for one would be happy to contribute to any crowd funding set up to pursue the case.

  16. lordelate permalink
    April 26, 2024 9:19 am

    The 845,000 ‘X’ views though will only be from Grauniad and beeb followers who are all engaged in a death spiral anyway, normal thinking folks won’t have taken a blind bit of notice.

    • gezza1298 permalink
      April 26, 2024 11:49 am

      Talking of the fact free Guardian, Jo Nova refers to a poll that now has the people placing unreliable green energy as the most expensive and fossil fuels as the cheapest with nuclear in the middle. So what do they do now? Lie of course and say that they never said that renewables would be cheaper and try to blame us for the misconception that we would live in a cheap green nirvana. But didn’t the incompetent liar Chris Stark in his tearful piece about Net Zero becoming a stick to beat them with claim that come 2050 our lives would be the same as now? Try telling that to the German workers who lose their jobs every week as production is closed down or firms go bankrupt.

      • lordelate permalink
        April 26, 2024 12:26 pm

        Indeed!

  17. lordelate permalink
    April 26, 2024 9:24 am

    I ‘bet’ Chris ‘I used to have three log burners in my house’ Packham has a larger house in the country than most. ergo a bigger footprint than everyone else.

    (I would only bet that if I was a gambling man but I’m not) 

  18. April 26, 2024 9:51 am

    Why won’t Chris Packham have a real debate on climate?

    From his perspective that would be legitimising non-believers.

  19. energywise permalink
    April 26, 2024 4:40 pm

    Packham is another lefty wannabe climate nut – I take zero notice of these idiots

  20. April 26, 2024 7:53 pm

    Okay, I shall be blunt about this, Chris Packham has serious mental health issues. He is a “nut job” in common parlance. Sadly such nutters are welcome in the dystopian world of the BBC. Politics actually doesn’t come into this, he lives on a different planet to the majority of the rest of us. In my opinion he is a dangerously evil person. First against the wall.

    • Gamecock permalink
      April 26, 2024 9:33 pm

      . . . after a fair trial.

      • devonblueboy permalink
        April 27, 2024 10:16 am

        With the same quality of evidence he uses in his wild accusations

  21. April 26, 2024 10:11 pm

    Why fair?!

  22. April 27, 2024 10:56 am

    Finally…

    BBC removes Laura Kuenssberg episode after complaint over Chris Packham comments

    Edition taken down from iPlayer after claim of ‘false and defamatory’ allegations — 26 April 2024 • 10:08pm

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/26/bbc-laura-kuenssberg-episode-chris-packham-complaint/

    • April 27, 2024 11:00 am

      From the report:

      “During a discussion with the panel about various issues including climate change, broadcaster and conservationist Chris Packham claimed that the Daily Sceptic, whose editor-in-chief is Toby Young, is ‘basically put together by a bunch of professionals with close affiliations to the fossil fuel industry’.

      “We acknowledge we would ideally have asked him to present his evidence on this, but in a fast-moving live programme it’s not always possible to pick up on every point made by our guests.

      “We’ve removed any posts on X with this part of the discussion.”

      • cunningfox12 permalink
        April 27, 2024 12:47 pm

        So ‘fast-moving’, in fact, that Kuenssberg was able to ‘pick up’ the claim herself, make a clip of it and post it to Twitter. She must be the fastest woman on Earth!

  23. frankobaysio permalink
    April 27, 2024 11:17 pm

    BBC has just removed this whole Kuenssberg on Sunday episode from BBC iPlayer. So much for Free Speech evidence being kept available …..   https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/26/bbc-laura-kuenssberg-episode-chris-packham-complaint/

Comments are closed.