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OFGEM Wants To Rip Out Your Central Heating & Put 10m EVs On The Road By 2030

February 3, 2020

By Paul Homewood

 

Well I did warn you!!

 

 image

Plans to put ten million electric vehicles on the road within ten years and rip gas central heating from every home are unveiled today.

Energy regulator Ofgem has outlined how the nation will have to change the way it travels and heats homes to meet the Government’s target of net zero carbon emissions by 2050.

The radical scheme to ‘greenwire’ Britain will be built around plans for a four-fold increase in electricity from wind farms around the coast. But the proposals will largely be paid for by families and businesses, adding billions of pounds to bills over the next 30 years.

And switching away from natural gas heating and hot water for homes and businesses will require spending as much as £20billion a year by 2050.

The Citizens Advice charity says there is evidence that millions of people do not understand the enormous scale of the changes required. And it warns efforts will be needed to help customers, particularly the most vulnerable, with the costs they face.

There will be doubts as to whether the regulator and energy industry can deliver on the proposals, not least because of the delays and massive cost overrun on the installation of smart energy meters in all homes.

Ofgem argues that the electricity generated by wind farms will, in the future, be considerably cheaper than from traditional sources such as gas, coal and oil.

And it is proposing that owners of electric cars charge them through the night when power is cheap and then sell it back to the national grid at a higher price at peak periods.

As a result, the embedded power stored in the cars’ batteries will reduce the need to build new gas-fired power stations.

Ofgem said: ‘Increased uptake of electric vehicles creates a rare opportunity for a win-win-win for society, through lower carbon emissions, improved air quality and a more robust and low-cost energy system. But this will only be achieved if drivers are supported to charge their vehicles typically at off-peak times.

‘Support for drivers using their electric vehicles in novel ways will also be needed, for example by “vehicle-to-grid” technology to share energy from car batteries back to the electricity grid when it is needed.’ Ofgem envisages the number of electric vehicles will surge from 230,000 today to ten million by 2030 and 39million by 2050. It argues this will only be possible if the current total of 30,000 public car chargers rises to 210,000, plus 3,500 rapid and ultra-rapid chargers near motorways.

It is suggested that building and running the infrastructure to support the roll-out of electric vehicles could be £2billion a year, equivalent to £30 on every household bill (stock image)

It is suggested that building and running the infrastructure to support the roll-out of electric vehicles could be £2billion a year, equivalent to £30 on every household bill (stock image)

At the same time, traditional natural gas central heating and hot water systems will have to be ripped out of millions of homes.

These will be replaced with electric heating and, potentially, a new gas system run on hydrogen, where the only emissions are water.

The regulator said: ‘The future of heating is less certain, with a range of possible different pathways to decarbonise.

‘In 2017, just 4.5 per cent of the energy used for heating the UK’s 29million homes and other non-residential buildings was from a low-carbon source.

‘This number needs to rise significantly by 2050.’ 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7959041/Energy-regulator-Ofgem-announces-plans-10m-electric-vehicles-road-10-years.html

 

I am not quite sure what any of this has to do with OFGEM, whose role is supposed to be to regulate the energy market, not set public policy.

As for the 10 million electric cars on the roads by 2030, dream on. Only 37000 fully electric cars (ie excl hybrids) were sold last year. Somehow that need to rise to an average of 1 million a year over the next decade.

Regardless of how many public chargers are installed, the problem of what all of the millions of drivers without off street parking are supposed to remains unanswered. Are they expected to queue up at these chargers for hours on their way home from work?

The claim that using EVs to sell power back to the grid, and thus save building more gas power stations is also illiterate. The grid will still need full back up from gas power, or other dispatchable sources, regardless, for the times when wind power is negligible.

 

But my main complaint about this report is that OFGEM still are not being honest about the true cost implications.

They claim that wind power will be considerably cheaper than from traditional sources such as gas, coal and oil. But there is absolutely no evidence for this whatsoever. Even with recent lower CfD prices for offshore wind, when the cost of integrating intermittent power and standby power is factored in wind power remains more expensive. Hence the calls for punitive carbon taxing.

A cost of £20bn a year by 2050 is mentioned, but this is way below the £50bn estimated by the CCC.

Large numbers like this don’t mean much to the public. But they would be horrified if they found out that replacing their boilers with heat pumps will cost upwards of £10000. Particularly if they are forced to stop using gas boilers which have years of life left in them.

96 Comments
  1. February 3, 2020 2:23 pm

    More of the moneylaundering, useless wind scam. Figures. Let’s make a deal—we’ll start by having those who want this walk to work (distance does not matter) and turn off their heat at home and offices first. Oh, and their name will go down in history for the worst environmental destruction ever wrought by humankind.

  2. Charles Turner permalink
    February 3, 2020 2:24 pm

    Cloud cuckoo land!

  3. Paul R permalink
    February 3, 2020 2:25 pm

    This entire scam becomes more and more the world of cloud cuckoo land by the day. How can some return to common sense be achieved? Is there no one of influence and respect able to command the attention of the besotted, sheep like public and set out in simple arithmetic the utter and incomprehensible lunacy of these policies? I can barely believe I am living in a world so beholden to such impractical and irrelevant policymaking. No10 should be bombarded with Paul Homwewood statistics by the hour. Boris is no fool – in fact the opposite – and he needs to be given the oppolrtinuty to read and digest the truth.

  4. Rupert Fiennes permalink
    February 3, 2020 2:29 pm

    EV’s presently use li-ion batteries that survive only 600 ish charge/discharge cycles. One wonders how long they will last if they are called upon every time the wind drops 😦

    • styleyd permalink
      February 3, 2020 4:56 pm

      Yes that is one of the big problems I envisage with this thinking. I see it makes some kind of sense for the (proposed) millions of EV cars sat in garages with 150+ mile range batteries that the owners only need to get to the shops and hospital trip etc., to sign-up to schemes whereby the ‘unused’ battery capacity is used for grid capacity. In fact it seems the only way and moves all the cost of battery backup to the us. But the downside to the users is the that their battery would age much more quickly (more cost to us!). Of course this also relies on users being conscientious to ensure the cars are plugged whenever not in use. I can already imagine Maxine Peake on a set of nannying commercials ‘Don’t be a b*gger, be a plugger’.

      • February 3, 2020 7:13 pm

        As people are generally quite selfish, I anticipate fully-charged vehicles being abruptly unplugged from the grid. Who is going to want their battery drained? If there are going to be price spikes that make this remotely worthwhile, gawd help us all.

      • It doesn't add up... permalink
        February 4, 2020 3:30 pm

        V2G is really quite futile. The idea that batteries can be used to bridge a serious lull in the weather is preposterous.

  5. Peter F Gill permalink
    February 3, 2020 2:30 pm

    Don’t worry. There is no chance that generating capacity can be increased fast enough to match the replacement of natural gas or the petroleum products used in internal combustion engines. No one in government seems to understand this basic fact. Of course attempts to provide the extra capacity via wind power will end in tears and wreck the grid. Again no one in government understands the need to maintain frequency very close to 50Hz. This is maybe a consequence of reading history, the law, economics etc rather than the sciences and technologies, particularly physics and electrical engineering. Ask your MP how many Drax sized power stations will be required and when? You may have to wait some time for an answer!

    • Chris permalink
      February 3, 2020 3:00 pm

      The trouble is, Peter, the ‘unaware’ politicians are the ones making the policy decisions and forcing these measures on the unsuspecting public. Is there anyone out there – with both sufficient sanity and political clout – to put the authorities right before terrible damage is done to the nation’s power supply infrastructure?

      • Harry Passfield permalink
        February 3, 2020 4:31 pm

        Chris, when you consider that these PPE MPs are basing their decisions on the advice they get from the likes of Sir David (the Antarctic is melting) King, it’s hardly surprising they come up with such daft ideas.
        Can you imagine the uproar when the first streets have their gas switched off? Talk of ripping out gas boilers is hyperbolic nonsense.

      • Peter F Gill permalink
        February 3, 2020 7:56 pm

        In the end it will be the voting public. Damage caused by the attempts to decarbonise is already being done but covered up. Examples are all over the place. Remember that Gordon Brown was advised by David King that diesel powered cars emitted less CO2 per mile than petrol driven cars and where that led. Then when have you heard on the BBC or elsewhere that the cladding that caught fire on Grenfell Tower was put there in line with government policy (and of course the EU) to reduce the carbon footprint of buildings. Blame so far being laid on the fire service and the manufacturers of the cladding. The supply to circa one million people failed, but of course it was only partly to do with a wind farm (most people would not know about synchronicity). In 2004 Chapter 6 of the fourth report by the Select Committee on Science and Technology included the following: “…..wind turbines normally generate electricity non-synchronously. This is, however, only likely to become a major issue if significantly larger amounts of wind power are connected than at present.”
        Our electricity will continue to be far more expensive than it needs to be naturally assuming due care to the environment which means deSOX, deNOX and control of elimination of particulate emissions in fossil fuel combustion whilst adding more and more unreliable generation (wind & solar). One consequence of this is further excess deaths in winter as people make either wrong or inescapable choices about heating where they live. The actual, number of deaths in the winter period is not easy to find as the statistics are for England and Wales and separately for Scotland and Northern Ireland and differently based. Scotland’s stats are probably clear as comparison are made between deaths in December to March compared with the averages of the other two periods of the year August to November of one year and April to July of the following year. However, in total for the period 2017/18 we are talking of a figure over 50,000 (one estimate puts it at 55,720). My guess is that the total dying of hypothermia per year may exceed road deaths or be in the same ball park (about 2000). And yet the government take road deaths seriously and fine us if we don’t have proper tread on our tyres, exceed speed limits even by small amounts, and so on. By the way good luck if you try to find proper stats for hypothermia. I won’t go on about what expensive electricity does for the UK’s competitiveness….

      • HotScot permalink
        February 4, 2020 12:26 am

        @Peter F. Gill

        The numbers for Excess Winter Deaths (EWD’s) in England and Wales are readily available on the Office For National Statistics (ONS) web site.

        I can’t recall precisely the number of EWD’s in the ‘unremarkable’ 2017/2018 winter but it was around 50,000 as you state. It was higher than some previous years because there was a flue epidemic that year BUT, EWD’s run at roughly 20,000 – 30,000 every year, again from memory, averaging about 29,000 From memory.

        All this is almost meaningless until put into context so, I’ll do so: During the ‘unprecedented’ Indian summer heatwave of 2017 there were 2,500 deaths (I have read that only 222 were directly attributed to the heat, but we’ll work with the higher figure for now) according to the India Disaster Database (the name is probably not accurate).

        England and Wales have a population of roughly 55M with the number truly poverty stricken i.e. living off less that $1.95 per day, virtually non existent.

        India has a population of around 1.3Bn of which there are roughly 70M living in true poverty i.e. living off less than $1.95 per day.

        And yet we are expected to believe the bizarre concept that a warmer planet is a more dangerous planet, despite the IPCC telling us that they only have a low – to medium confidence that climate change causes extreme weather, in which case, that eventuality really doesn’t come into this equation.

        We are therefore left with where this all started, Global Warming – NOT climate change. There is no such thing. The climate doesn’t change, weather patterns shift with a slightly warming planet – it’s always raining/snowing/freezing somewhere. The wind’s blowing somewhere and the Sun’s shining somewhere.

        Temperature is the only real change we are experiencing, and as I have illustrated, far more people, in the fifth wealthiest nation in the world, die from cold than do those from the equivalent 70M of the poorest people on the planet from heat.

        The total, of the average number of Indians dying from summer heatwaves is (again from memory) is around 17,000, since 1990! That doesn’t even approach the average of one years Excess Winter Deaths in the UK!

        I will emphasise that the numbers are from memory and not necessarily accurate, but the concept is sound.

      • Peter F Gill permalink
        February 4, 2020 8:43 am

        Yes although differently based than the other parts of the UK figures for England and Wales are readily available as you say. I was making two points (1) it is difficult to get a representative figure for the whole UK through time (intentional or unintentional?) and (2) the excess deaths in winter are far more important than in summer. You are agreeing with me. “Fuel poverty” is defined differently from “poverty” as a little research will show. My piece was confined to the UK.

    • Phoenix44 permalink
      February 3, 2020 4:36 pm

      Nor the infrastructure to support ten million EVs. That’s ten million charging points at our homes, and a further 10-30 million along our roads (maybe more). And until we have the ones along the roads and motorways, no-one’s buying an EV.

    • John Cullen permalink
      February 3, 2020 6:35 pm

      My MP is one of the few who has a science degree and yet she does not reply to my letter/e-mails warning of the dire consequences of current energy policies. Are my missives being binned by my MP’s secretary before ever reaching her, I wonder. In the past my MP forwarded my letters to the Secretary of State who replied to me – but no longer! So has the group-think and lobbying by rent-seekers completely swayed the political classes? If so then tough times await us all as we move ever closer to the (temporary?) collapse of the electricity grid.

      • BLACK PEARL permalink
        February 3, 2020 6:54 pm

        I would suspect if you’re a ‘repeat letter writer’ your ‘missives’ are being trashed / classified as junk mail. ‘oh not again’
        I have never had a reply from mine over Brexit related stuff other than a party policy general emailed circular. (Only ever contacted 3 times)
        Looking at her face book page there is no more being accomplished than what a decent local councillor could do on a fraction of the overhead.
        Complete waste of space (my opinion of coarse)

    • Patrick Healy permalink
      February 5, 2020 9:54 am

      Not too sure Peter Gill about the subject’s being studied at Uni.
      A very close and special relative is doing his Masters in Electrical Engineering at a top Uni.
      Having been indoctrinated at high school on the dangers of “polluting” plant food he is a fully paid up member of the global warming cult.
      He is being tutored by a well known energy supplier and is specialising in windmills!
      Also the guy at Oxford mentioned above – Fergus Green(!) – Is studying for a Masters in Physics and Philosophy.
      So it is worse than we can imagine.

      • Peter F Gill permalink
        February 5, 2020 11:15 am

        Whilst I am well aware of the indoctrination going on this does not mean that the impracticality to which I referred will be overcome. In terms of the tasks involved 2035 is more of less tomorrow.

  6. February 3, 2020 2:32 pm

    What happens when the wind doesn’t blow?
    https://adriankerton.wordpress.com/005c-will-the-lights-go-off-in-january/
    So you sell the electricity in your car to the grid then find there’s nothing left to get you to work !
    “the number of electric vehicles will surge from 230,000 today to ten million by 2030 and 39million by 2050.”
    There is no way the person power with the relevant expertise is available to install charging points in the streets which will need new cables and probably upgrades of the local transformers.
    How do these people rise to such an extraordinary level of incompetence?

    • Pancho Plail permalink
      February 3, 2020 5:58 pm

      Indeed, what happens when the wind doesn’t blow for a week at a time.

    • Dave Ward permalink
      February 3, 2020 5:58 pm

      “Then find there’s nothing left to get you to work !”

      Not a problem – if there’s little or no wind power, there won’t be any “Work” to go to…

      • Ariane permalink
        February 3, 2020 8:04 pm

        Dave, that’s exactly what the Original plan was: a primitive economy – men go out to hunt and women fetch the water and cut the wood to cook. As far as the likes of Sir Attenborough are concerned, too, the fewer babies who survive, the better.

  7. Jackington permalink
    February 3, 2020 2:36 pm

    Now that’s what I call a Climate Emergency and needs to be addressed quickly otherwise millions of our fellow citizens are going to die because they will not be able to afford central heating any longer.

  8. charles wardrop permalink
    February 3, 2020 2:37 pm

    Since the UK ‘s output of manmade CO2 is a mere one-third of 1% of the global total, we do not need to decarbonise at all.

  9. February 3, 2020 2:44 pm

    No worries. We have oil fired central heating 🙂

    • February 3, 2020 3:17 pm

      Me too.

      • Dave Ward permalink
        February 3, 2020 6:01 pm

        And for how long do you suppose heating oil (or LPG), will still be available if these lunatics get their way?

  10. andrewgreen1234 permalink
    February 3, 2020 2:51 pm

    Complete madness!

    Also, Li-ion batteries use:
    Cobalt, mined in Congo by children in mines run by armed militias;
    Lithium, from the salt flats in Bolivia and Peru, which uses so much water to extract it that local villages have no water;
    Graphite, from China, a massively dirty and polluting process;
    Nickel, another incredibly dirty mining process, which was so bad that the Philippines have forced closure of mines;
    Rare earths, also mainly from China, which requires the use of acid to extract them, destroying the local environment; used in all electronic components, including solar panels and wind turbines.

    Our bright new ‘clean’ energy future relies entirely on neocolonial exploitation of the Global South. Shocking and immoral!

  11. Alastair Dodwell permalink
    February 3, 2020 2:53 pm

    Interesting. After the fine work with Smart Meters I am convinced that OFGEM are the ones to lead us out of the wilderness. Oh wait Smart Meters was one of the most incompetent and badly conceived central government projects of all time. How late is it, how over budget and tries to solve a problem that does not exist.
    The idea is sound but needs work. Especially on replacing Gas with Hydrogen. The cost for this is huge and would make HS2 look like a walk in the park. Plus where does the Hydrogen come from?

    • Harry Passfield permalink
      February 3, 2020 4:38 pm

      The current batch of Smart Meters are designed to measure electricity AND gas use. Seems they will be 50% redundant if these idiots get their way. Our mortal enemies must be loving this quisling-like destruction of our country by useful idiots.

  12. GeoffB permalink
    February 3, 2020 2:55 pm

    Climate Change Act is enshrined in Law. To meet the requirements, the blinkered civil servants OFGEM and the CCC come up with this ridiculous plan to comply. It is not their job to look at costs and practical issues. The Climate change act has to be repealed, and I cannot see that happening anytime soon.

    • dave permalink
      February 3, 2020 3:29 pm

      The plan predicates Government introducing emergency mobilization and direction of the economy. Absent this rather unlikely development, it is waste paper.

    • Ariane permalink
      February 3, 2020 8:12 pm

      Geoff
      Yes. Brexit was a battle which we won. The next battle is the repeal of the CCAct and the disbanding of the CCC. Where is the pro-CO2 Farage?

    • Gerry, England permalink
      February 4, 2020 2:02 pm

      OFGEM is supposed to be an impartial regulator of the energy market – well, until Milliband change it to require it not to criticise all the cost increases caused by climate change taxes. Probably they best be renamed OFF*CK.

  13. CheshireRed permalink
    February 3, 2020 2:57 pm

    As things stand this is proof positive that sanity has lost the argument, while climate hysteria – led by the Guardian and XR loons, has won.

    Our government has utterly lost the plot on this subject to a level of stupid that is breathtaking to behold.

    They want to ‘spend’ (ie squander) £1 trillion, in order to abate precisely 0C of ‘global warming’. To call this madness is too polite by half.

  14. Ian Cook permalink
    February 3, 2020 3:05 pm

    Presumably the same people came up with this, as told Corbyn about magic money trees. Or that Carbon is somehow dangerous. Or that the planet warming up is something humans can and should do something about. (OK, they don’t mean us to do that, just destroy our capitalist economies).

  15. February 3, 2020 3:10 pm

    Now, where did I put my yellow jacket…

  16. jack broughton permalink
    February 3, 2020 3:18 pm

    The carbon tax is, so far as I understand it anyway, purely a tax to allow money to be spent on white elephants. The people are being badly misled by the media into thinking that this is to “save the planet”, (which most of us would be happy to do I suppose), but it has no real effect on the planetary CO2 level even. No real investigative journalists seem to exist since Booker went, so the climate-cabal runs riot.

  17. February 3, 2020 3:20 pm

    2 pieces of XR news
    upposedly IMPARTIAL judge praising XR protesters he is supposed to be punishing
    Disruption and violent obstruction is fine when it’s done by nice middle class people.

    • February 3, 2020 3:20 pm

      That dim judge doesn’t understand the trickery of Alinsky techniques
      Just in :
      XR co-founder filmed calling for ‘take down’ of civilisation

      + LBC presenter calls for greater police powers
      https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/enough-enough/xr-co-founder-filmed-calling-sabotage-civilisation/

    • February 3, 2020 4:15 pm

      BTW there is no official record of alleged remarks by the judge, so the healine could be an Alinsky trick itself
      media were present at the sentencing and recording is not allowed but Davis said that a friend of one of the defendants in the public gallery made notes of Noble’s sentencing remarks.
      According to these notes, Noble said:
      “This is going to be my last Extinction Rebellion trial for a little while. I think they only allow us to do so many of these before our sympathies start to overwhelm us.”

      “When I started, I was fully expecting to see the usual crowd of anarchists and communists, and all the dreadful things the Daily Mail say you are.”

      “I have to say I have been totally overwhelmed by all the defendants. It is such a pleasure to deal with people so different from those I deal with in my regular life. Thank you for your courtesy, thank you for your integrity, thank you for your honesty. You have to succeed.”

  18. February 3, 2020 3:22 pm

    From the Ofgem website:
    “Ofgem is the Office of Gas and Electricity Markets. We are a non-ministerial government department and an independent National Regulatory Authority, recognised by EU Directives. Our principal objective when carrying out our functions is to protect the interests of existing and future electricity and gas consumers.”

    There is no mention in their principal objective of coming up with crazy schemes designed to destroy the interests of existing and future electricity and gas consumers.

    https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/about-us/who-we-are

    • It doesn't add up... permalink
      February 3, 2020 5:51 pm

      It is Ed Miliband’s crazy 2010 Energy Act that defines the purpose of OFGEM as putting green interests ahead of consumers. Mr Brearley clearly studied the act in some detail in his career there before taking over as its head. Perhaps he could be encouraged to get on with the day job

      http://watt-logic.com/2020/01/08/energy-market-outlook/

  19. David A permalink
    February 3, 2020 3:22 pm

    I agree totally with Geoff B, above. Milliband’s ludicrous UK Climate Change Act must be repealed. The only chance that we have to achieve that is for as many people as possible to go to their MP and demand that it is. An enjoyable side benefit is to watch the MP’s face go blanks they struggle for something to say before the start recalling the spoon fed claptrap from the alarmist media (I.e. the BBC and The Grauniad.

  20. MrGrimNasty permalink
    February 3, 2020 3:23 pm

    https://www.clientearth.org/drax-legal-case-taking-uk-government-to-court-over-europes-largest-gas-plant/

    Morons, trying to destroy electricity supply reliability and a proven route to CO2 reduction, why don’t they challenge something actually wrong – like burning N. American forests?

    Using EV cars to buffer the grid has got to be the most un-thought-through dumb bonkers plan of all time – the problems/reasons it can’t ever be practical are manifest.

  21. dennisambler permalink
    February 3, 2020 3:24 pm

    https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/06/20190624-uk.html

    “…meeting UK electric car targets for 2050 would require production of just under two times the current total annual world cobalt production, nearly the entire world production of neodymium, three quarters the world’s lithium production and at least half of the world’s copper production.

    Energy cost of metal production
    The rare-earth energy costs are at least 3350 kWh/t, so for the target of all 31.5 million cars that requires 22.5 TWh of power to produce the new metals for the UK fleet, amounting to 6% of the UK’s current annual electrical usage. Extrapolated to 2 billion cars worldwide, the energy demand for extracting and processing the metals is almost 4 times the total annual UK electrical output

    Energy cost of charging electric cars:
    There are implications for the electrical power generation in the UK needed to recharge these vehicles.

    Challenges of using “green energy” to power electric cars
    If wind farms are chosen to generate the power for the projected two billion cars at UK average usage, this requires the equivalent of a further years’ worth of total global copper supply and 10 years’ worth of global neodymium and dysprosium production to build the windfarms.

    Solar power is also problematic: it is also resource hungry; all the photovoltaic systems currently on the market are reliant on one or more raw materials classed as “critical” or “near critical” by the EU and/ or US Department of Energy (high purity silicon, indium, tellurium, gallium) because of their natural scarcity or their recovery as minor-by-products of other commodities. With a capacity factor of only ~10%, the UK would require ~72GW of photovoltaic input to fuel the EV fleet; over five times the current installed capacity. If CdTe-type photovoltaic power is used, that would consume over thirty years of current annual tellurium supply.

    Both these wind turbine and solar generation options for the added electrical power generation capacity have substantial demands for steel, aluminium, cement and glass.”

  22. February 3, 2020 3:26 pm

    This is insanity on a massive scale! Our sun is entering a solar minimum. The ice is returning. Winter is coming. Prepare!

  23. Ian Wilson permalink
    February 3, 2020 3:43 pm

    andrewgreen1234 and dennisambler are spot on in highlighting the appalling mining practices in extracting minerals for electric car batteries. And these cars are supposed to be ‘green’

    January’s winter anticyclone saw wind at times generating just 3% of our electricity or about 1% of total energy and under half that of coal. A million wind turbines wouldn’t have kept Britain supplied. Then we learn 13.9 million trees in Scotland have been destroyed to build wind farms, which might scale up to 20 million for all Britain. And these machines are supposed to be ‘green’

  24. Subseaeng permalink
    February 3, 2020 3:45 pm

    Is this the beginning of the end of western civilisation comparable to the end of Rome? Just unbelievable. Also do you think if we pooled our dosh and paid for one way tickets to China for the XR peeps so that they can demonstrate over there, they would take it?

    • Mack permalink
      February 3, 2020 5:09 pm

      But in our case, the barbarians aren’t at the gates they’re running the bloody defences. Welcome to the Dark Ages Mark 2 folks.

  25. It doesn't add up... permalink
    February 3, 2020 3:56 pm

    To move to an all renewables solution we would need of the order of 30 TWh of storage to cover for seasonal variations, unproductive weather spells, and bad years at present levels of electricity demand. That would surge dramatically higher with electrification of more of our demand, with heating being highly seasonal in particular. With a typical car battery being perhaps 100 kWh, that would imply some 300 million vehicles dedicated to supporting the grid, not permitted to go anywhere when it was important that storage levels be topped up.

    They are completely bonkers.

  26. February 3, 2020 4:07 pm

    Is this IMPARTIAL broadcasting …
    or stealing money from the licence payers to push your own POLITICAL agendas ?
    #GreenDream #Cult

    • Phoenix44 permalink
      February 3, 2020 4:40 pm

      Just pure juvenile propaganda. Wholly biased. This isn’t science, it is politics.

  27. Jason permalink
    February 3, 2020 4:22 pm

    We need Nigel Farage on the case.

    • Gerry, England permalink
      February 4, 2020 2:06 pm

      I think we are in enough trouble already without adding another talking head who doesn’t do detail.

      • Ariane permalink
        February 4, 2020 4:55 pm

        Gerry
        About Farage: his knowledge of detail is good. Plus, he has authority and speaks with authority. To challenge current policies, these are the qualities needed. Basically, the issue is simple: the anti-CO2 lobby wants to impoverish ordinary people and make money out of us simultaneously.

  28. tonyb permalink
    February 3, 2020 4:39 pm

    we had a discussion on heat pumps here before and I think that it was not only the cost of them but the physical area they would take up that was the problem

    Retrofitting would be almost impossible and funding the space if you don’t actually own a large enough garden clearly means the scheme is a non starter for many existing properties.

    this would presumably apply to new housing developments and I wonder if any engineers here are able to work out the cost and the communal land area needed for a 100 house development?

  29. February 3, 2020 4:46 pm

    Producing hydrogen by steam refraction of methane releases 6 tonnes of CO2 for each tonne of hydrogen produced; oxidising H2 releases H2O, which is the principal greenhouse gas. It’s a mad old world!

  30. Phoenix44 permalink
    February 3, 2020 4:46 pm

    The costs are not going to be paid by families an businesses, but by just families. Businesses will simply pass the costs on. What else can they do?

    My rough estimate is £250 billion, to achieve higher cost, lower efficiency and lower utility from EVs. £250 billion to make us poorer. That’s going to mean a 2-3% reduction in GDP every year for ten years.

  31. Immune to propganda permalink
    February 3, 2020 4:56 pm

    We could do with a public pressure and protest group against the never ending stream of fraudulent climate acts by the UN, environmental groups and the UK government.

    There would need to be high profile demonstrations outside the UN and Downing Street.

    Perhaps the group could be called People Against Propaganda. Or What Climate Emergency?

    It would also be good if richer businesses who are fed up of climate taxation could pay for adverts showing how CO2 was higher in previous ice ages than today and highlighting the Marxist money skimming UN scam for what it is .

  32. John Peter permalink
    February 3, 2020 4:57 pm

    Fortunately, at this stage, it is a document with words rather than reality. If the current political class try to implement such proposals, it will be just a question of time before they are replaced when the actual consequences such as power supply breakdowns start and the bills become so onerous that something approaching genocide occurs due to the inability of more and more groups of people to fund the costs of using energy for whatever purpose. There will be a breaking point occurring. The question is when. At this point I have refused even to contemplate a smart meter and I happily heat my house with gas and drive my car with petrol. This will continue until I am arrested and put in prison where the government will be responsible for feeding me and keeping me warm.

    • Immune to propganda permalink
      February 3, 2020 5:03 pm

      Great comment, I think I’ll probably end up being your cell mate!

    • Steve permalink
      February 3, 2020 6:33 pm

      Hydrogen is also to be used for HGVs, trains, ships, industry and electricity peaking according to Gummer gasoilwind lobby. Not only will we need more non-renewable methane to produce the same amount of heating but more methane to replace the oil, which will still be used for aviation. And all of this spare CO2, whether skimmed off reforming plant or by expensive scrubbing, will be buried in old exhausted gas and oilfields. The number of 500 ft turbines, which will have to be replaced every twenty years is 15,000 to do the job properly, with enough gas and energy to be stored and generation to equal gas and solar for two weeks with no wind.
      No wonder our late greatest expert Prof MacKay thought it wouldn’t work and suggested nuclear run all the time. The gasoilwind lobby must be so pleased that nuclear stations in the UK are not to be replaced or refurbished. Money Money Money.

    • Steve permalink
      February 3, 2020 6:33 pm

      Hydrogen is also to be used for HGVs, trains, ships, industry and electricity peaking according to Gummer gasoilwind lobby. Not only will we need more non-renewable methane to produce the same amount of heating but more methane to replace the oil, which will still be used for aviation. And all of this spare CO2, whether skimmed off reforming plant or by expensive scrubbing, will be buried in old exhausted gas and oilfields. The number of 500 ft turbines, which will have to be replaced every twenty years is 15,000 to do the job properly, with enough gas and energy to be stored and generation to equal gas and solar for two weeks with no wind.
      No wonder our late greatest expert Prof MacKay thought it wouldn’t work and suggested nuclear run all the time. The gasoilwind lobby must be so pleased that nuclear stations in the UK are not to be replaced or refurbished. Money Money Money.

  33. Pancho Plail permalink
    February 3, 2020 6:08 pm

    Would you believe anything you read in a newspaper whose sub headline contains “Electric vehicle role (sic) out”

    • It doesn't add up... permalink
      February 4, 2020 3:28 pm

      When they come to their senses, it will be the headline. The idea that V2G is in any way practical as a solution to their problems is shall we say fanciful.

  34. Dave Ward permalink
    February 3, 2020 6:11 pm

    Every time I see headlines like this I can’t help wishing I was 20 years older – I’d either be dead or near enough for it not to matter…

  35. February 3, 2020 7:26 pm

    8pm Channel4 Australia on Fire: Climate Emergency
    with first-hand accounts from the firefighters on the frontline
    @ITNProductions #australiaonfire #AustraliaBurning

    @C4KylieM (Kylie Morris) reports on the dramatic, terrifying story of the battle against the bushfires down under with first-hand accounts from firefighters and residents. #AustraliaOnFire Climate Emergency,

    Nothing about arsonists then ?
    #CloseMinded cult

  36. BLACK PEARL permalink
    February 3, 2020 9:56 pm

    Seeing that picture in the above report, of those leky cars being recharged on the street.
    Very tempting target for vandals & copper thieves !

  37. February 3, 2020 10:33 pm

    Boris has an opportunity to show what he is really made of. Will he bring common sense back to Britain or is still a statist politician that cant tells good policy from nonsense? Because now Britain has clearly cut ties with the EU which throws quite some curveballs Britain’s way. Yes, those can be opportunities but only if Britain is capable to tackle its own demons and find back to a path of “a better future”. This would mean stable and affordable energy among other things. Not flicker electricity. How many blackouts in England can Boris survive? Lets cut the man some slack – but the world and especially average Britons are watching.

  38. Gamecock permalink
    February 4, 2020 12:06 am

    ‘to meet the Government’s target’

    People being forced to expend THEIR capital to meet GOVERNMENT’S target. That can’t end well.

  39. HotScot permalink
    February 4, 2020 12:49 am

    I costed for installing a Ground Source Heat Pump (GSHP) in my three bedroom, solid masonry, end terrace Victorian Cottage. It included insulating every wall and ceiling, necessitating ripping out kitchens/wardrobes etc. It also included whole house ventilation without which any building will suffer from serious damp. Cavity wall insulation exemplified that quite convincingly.

    Forget £10,000. The GSHP would cost in excess of £20,000 alone. The final figure was around £70,000!

    Ah but! I hear you say, Air Source heat Pumps are available. Which is fine in isolation but they are not quiet and the noise pollution from a housing development with perhaps dozens, if not hundreds in some cases, whirring away would drive people to distraction.

    Nor do we have off road parking, much like around 40% of the country. I questioned an electrician on the viability of adapting lamp posts to supply, say, two or three cars with sufficient power to charge overnight from a single lamp post. His opinion was that the 24v supply would need to be ripped out back to the sub station (assuming that would provide the load for perhaps dozens of of cars) and replaced with more substantial cabling or there would be insufficient power and fires breaking out everywhere.

    And would these be allocated charging points? Or would it just be a free for all to see whose car was left with no charging facilities because he/she was late home? I suspect there would be punch ups every night across the country.

    The entire concept is ludicrous. And as have just installed a new gas boiler three months ago, with a ten year guarantee, they’ll have a hell of a job forcing me to give that up. I’ll adapt it and use bottled gas if my gas supply is terminated!

    Nor is there, I don’t believe, any wholly electric car that can yet carry me and a family between Dartford in Kent, up to Ayr in Scotland without a recharge, and I’m not prepared to add another few hours to an already 8 hour journey to wait for a recharge, assuming there are unoccupied charges available en route.

    I wrote to my MP with these questions, and a number more. He was sufficiently interested himself to pass my letter on to a government department for comment (can’t recall which one) and I had a condescending reply back basically saying economies of scale Blah, Blah – everything in hand, Blah, Blah obviously written by someone copying from a crib sheet.

    All just utter nonsense.

    • Steve permalink
      February 4, 2020 5:41 am

      In the south of France, where I have a small holiday house, many neighbours have efficient air con units which serve as air source heat pumps in winter. In the coldest weather, they hardly work and electric storage heaters are necessary. In France the 80% nuclear supply has allowed electric resistance heaters to provide economical house heating.

    • It doesn't add up... permalink
      February 4, 2020 3:23 pm

      Much in line with the estimates made by Prof Mike Kelly. Good to see those confirmed by your practical experiences.

  40. Kneel permalink
    February 4, 2020 2:16 am

    Hmm…
    10 million cars charging at 50kW stations is, umm, 500GW.
    10 million homes using 2.5kW heaters is, umm, 25GW.
    I didn’t know England had that much grid capacity to spare – could you even do the heating, let alone charge the cars?

    • It doesn't add up... permalink
      February 4, 2020 2:26 pm

      We don’t all visit petrol stations at once…

      Cars and taxis did 255bn miles in 2018. At 3 miles per kWh, that would require 85TWh, or an average of just under 10GW. Confine it to 8 hours overnight, and it means dedicating 30GW. Add on a bit because mileage is usually less at weekends, so demand will be uneven across the week.

      OTOH I think you have underestimated heating demand. 28 million homes. Gas demand reaches 4TWh+ on a cold winter day. That’s an average of 167GW. Peak demand can run as high as 350GW. That is of course in conditions when heat pumps will fail to be effective.

  41. StephenP permalink
    February 4, 2020 12:47 pm

    I see that the Government and Whitehall have a combined heat and power supply run on natural gas.
    How will they cope when natural gas is banned? Hydrogen? How will the hydrogen be produced?
    https://www.pfmonthenet.net/article/13426/Cofathec-wins–25m-Whitehall-energy-contract.aspx

    • Gerry, England permalink
      February 4, 2020 1:48 pm

      In an interesting programme I watched recently I found out that the City of London is supplied by a CHP plant housed in buildings on the north side of Smithfield lablled Port of London Authority and Central Cold Store. It has been upgraded with new gas powered plant and supplied the Barbican estate as well as the Guildhall.

  42. Ivan permalink
    February 4, 2020 12:55 pm

    Here’s the real Ofgem document.

    https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/system/files/docs/2020/02/ofg1190_decarbonisation_action_plan_web_0.pdf


    Needless to say, it bears very little resemblance to what a certain populist newspaper would like you to believe it says.

    • Gerry, England permalink
      February 4, 2020 1:56 pm

      The new OFGEM boss is given a thorough working over by Dr John Constable of GWPF as to how totally unsuitable he is to run it. Brearley is behind the creation of the subsidy market for wind and solar.

    • It doesn't add up... permalink
      February 4, 2020 2:12 pm

      It bears very little resemblance to a viable future for energy supply.

    • February 4, 2020 3:52 pm

      I suggest you read the OFGEM document more carefully, Ivan.

      Everything in the Mail article is there. Indeed there are no surprises, because OFGEM are by and large just requoting the CCC Net Zero report, which said all of the same things

    • A C Osborn permalink
      February 4, 2020 4:29 pm

      I like this part ” enable drivers to go electric by supporting and energy network that can power 10 miilon EVs by 2030″

      That is less than 1/3rd of the current car population and even that would require 1 million EV sales per year from now on.
      I wonder what they expect the rest of the drivers to do, carry on with just Petrol powered vehicles??

  43. Chaswarnertoo permalink
    February 4, 2020 1:29 pm

    ‘Electric’ cars are COAL FIRED in the UK.

    • Ivan permalink
      February 4, 2020 1:41 pm

      Less than 5%.

      • Harry Passfield permalink
        February 4, 2020 10:01 pm

        A lot more than that at night in a high pressure event. Get real.

  44. Gerry, England permalink
    February 4, 2020 2:11 pm

    How timely that the European People’s Party is calling for the EU to look at the economic costs of its climate lunacy before committing to anything further.

  45. Ken ruby permalink
    February 4, 2020 11:19 pm

    You can’t just rely on one source power like electricity what about the pollution from power stations when they go wrong. No heat no water no hot food no cars because the electricity broken down

  46. February 5, 2020 12:29 am

    Reblogged this on ajmarciniak.

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