CPRE Want Rooftop Solar
By Paul Homewood
h/t Robin Guenier
Robin tells me that the CPRE, formerly known as the Campaign to Protect Rural England, (presumably not woke or inclusive enough!) has been leafletting its members about its solar panel campaign:
Its answer is to plaster solar panels all over rooftops instead:
https://www.cpre.org.uk/news/rooftops-can-provide-over-half-our-solar-energy-targets-report-shows/
It is good to see that the CPRE does not want them littered all over the countryside, which they claim would take up an area larger than Greater London.
But why is it the CPRE’s business to be promoting solar panels at all?
Their claim about “cheapest electricity” does not stand up to scrutiny for a start. The next tranche of solar capacity due to come on stream in the next year or two have CfDs priced at £61.51/MWh:
However at the end of May, spot market prices were down to around £60/MWh.
And as we know, solar power is so intermittent that it has to be 100% backed up by dispatchable power, which greatly adds to the system costs. With a 70GW target by 2035, solar farms will also need battery storage if the grid is not to be overwhelmed at midday.
And where will all these solar panels be dumped when they reach the end of their life in ten or fifteen years time? That is surely something which should be of very real concern to a countryside charity, particularly given the highly toxic materials involved.
The CPRE’s “vision” is “a thriving, beautiful countryside for everyone”. They should stick to this vision, instead of getting involved in political campaigning, which I suspect most of its members disagree with anyway.
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NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT 
Cloud cuckoo land stuff. The winter generation will be negligible, who provides the power then? Ah, yes, the unicorns will perform their magic…..
But CPRE aren’t totally against potentially covering hundreds of acres of our countryside with solar farms “Our rooftop stance doesn’t mean that we oppose all proposals for ground mounted solar panels in the countryside”. (source: https://www.cpre.org.uk/explainer/solar-energy-the-countryside/)
CPRE has mutated into DESTRUCTION of RURAL ENGLAND .
“Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing.” — Conquest’s 2nd law of politics.
The rooftop solar panel schtick is CPRE’s confession they are now left wing. Which, as Paul points out, doesn’t represent their membership.
The long time leader of cpre jumped in with green crap 20 years ago
No more Jam and Jerusalem, the WI has gone the same way, now the Woke Institute.
You never know they might start advocating using (flat) roof tops for crop growing to replace the acres of previously agricultural land now growing solar panels, which do not sequester and exchange CO2 as well as the grass/crops covered up, and which increase the localised temperature by reflecting heat from the sun….? ( Nat Geo, some years ago, calculated a 100 sq miles of useless US desert could be used to put PV solar panels to provide the then entire US demand for electricity – only to point out that the vast array would increase temperatures in the area, very eco-inconveniently..)
I don’t know if upland England had Lazy Beds but no doubt we’ll be doing something similar soon as prime arable land is used for solar PV and something else is needed.
Lazy beds: proof that people used to have a sense of humour!
I was wild camping on such beds recently, and thinking about how many trips from the beach below would have been needed to turn the generally rocky area into soil fit for even the simplest crops. How much effort was put into harvesting the sea weed, putting into piles to rot down. Then I was thinking about the work to pile up the soil into dykes to allow the wet soil to drain. Then the effort to keep away the deer from the crops. I estimated an hour every day, just to bring in the seaweed for the two small “allotments” for the one small cottage (20′ x 10′).
Anything but lazy, and certainly not beds.
I confess to being a fan of solar panels — in their rightful place!!
A few years ago I bought a set of solar-operated outdoor Christmas tree lights which worked perfectly, absorbing enough energy in daylight hours to power the lights for six hours each evening.
A local firm is selling window shutters also solar-powered (perhaps ‘daylight-powered’ would be a better description — bright sunshine not obligatory) equipment which also works perfectly well, bearing in mind that the power is only required for a matter of minutes twice a day.
There are numerous other niche uses, from electric hedge trimmers to road signs where solar power would make sense.
The problems start when we try to “gross up” and expect 24/7 results from a “product” whose input is limited to an average of no better than half that. Covering (and effectively sterilising) acres of valuable countryside with solar panels makesno sense. There are better and more concentrated ways of harnessing the power of the sun.
I was having a discussion about the optimum angle for a solar PV panel. Some idiot had placed some “spy-device” looking unit on a local lamp post with a massive angle, probably the yearly average.
In reality, a fixed solar powered device, is going to be limited by the available solar power in late December, early January when the sun is low, AND the sun is blocked more often as it has to pass more horizontally through cloud.
The optimum angle for that time of year (in Scotland), is so close to vertical, that there is no significant difference between a vertical solar panel and one at the supposed “optimum” – you may as well spend the money that a special bracket at the supposed optimum angle on a slightly bigger Solar PV panel. And, if you design a device that can be used throughout the UK, then the critical place is Scotland, so if it works in Scotland, it works throughout the UK.
I have read from time to time that the manufacture of solar panels consumes more energy than they harvest in their lifetime (at least in a northerly latitude such as the UK). However I have seen no studies that show this. Does anyone know if the statement is at all accurate?
No surprises here. Max elevation of the sun in London mid winter is 15°. Glasgow 11°.
We have a very handy solar powered IR-triggered floodlight on our back path.
Not having to wire it and not having batteries to change were definite bonuses!
So why is this organisation not up in arms about all the windmills littered all over the countryside?
Depends on where you live.
Not very many in North Islington
O/T, I’ve just watched the end of today’s Politics Live programme at a friends house, and the final credit contains a footprint logo and the words ‘ALERT’. Carbon Neutral Sustainable Production, at the bottom of the screen.
More blatant climate propaganda from the allegedly impartial BBC!
Sorry no screengrab.
Biased Brainwashing Cult: Never knowingly impartial!
Look out also for “Albert” sustainability at the end of programs, not just Beeb.
https://wearealbert.org/
“We are the home of environmental sustainability for film + TV. This is the place to share, learn and act on our impact.
We are working to help creatives make content that supports the transition to a sustainable future. Programme makers have two complementary content opportunities;
to look for exciting new ways to place the planet into the picture
to ensure content’s editorial ambition isn’t unduly normalising unsustainable behaviour”
Solar PV is a fantastic form of energy, if your main energy demand is from air conditioning. But in Britain, Solar PV isn’t a lot of help.
In contrast: Solar hot water panels are fantastic in Britain, because we get a lot of spring and Autumn sunshine at a time when the ground (i.e. water) is still quite cold, so solar can make a massive reduction in energy use.
So, if Solar was about reducing energy usage … the target would be to have solar hot water heating on every roof. But, the policy has nothing at all to do with saving energy. It is solely one pushed by companies selling solar PV … who actively repress the idea of solar hot water heating.
Which ties in with my comment above. There are myriad domestic or other smallscale uses where solar power makes perfectly good sense. Arguably a couple where it might be the ideal solution. You have just added a larger scale one, but still within the capacity of independent domestic operation which would prove a considerable saving at least as an adjunct to mains-heated hot water and possibly to gas-fired central heating.
Makes a lot more sense than heat pumps!
Heat pumps are a fantastic device … for keeping beer cold!
Our local lido has installed solar panels to heat the water. It makes perfect sense, as by definition the pool is only open during the day in summer.
For those wanting power through the winter and especially at night it makes no sense at all.
A device on the panel that enables it to follow the sun at the correct angle through the year seems to me to be essential. I did some experiments and leaving the panel in place over a sunny day, meant it delivered at times 25% of the power of when the panel was moved to follow the sun and at the correct angle. Mind you, when some clouds came over power plummeted and strangely there was none at all at night, do you think the elite realise this?
Well yes, Mike. It’s “let them eat cake” government.
When they decided that their subjects must do without power from fossil fuels, courtiers asked, “Where will they get electricity?” To which government responded, “Well, they can just use this solar panel thingy.”
Totally unsuitable for grid level power. But government ideas aren’t required to be good.
Exact same with electric cars. Useful in some niche applications, but totally unsuitable for general use by the masses.
Mike you make an excellent point. A solar thermal panel simply “harvests” heat and doesn’t try to convert it into another energy form. Solar thermal ( evacuated tube) can be up to 80% efficient making it about 6 times more so than solar PV. As you rightly say it works well at times of year when solar PV is pretty much non existent.
There are several technologies being worked on to store summer excess (thermo chemical storage as detailed here http://www.e-hub.org/thermo-chemical-storage.html ) and also using Phase Change Materials (PCMs) for shorter term application.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-change_material#:~:text=A%20phase-change%20material%20(PCM,and%20liquid%20-%20to%20the%20other.
Now why is it you never seem to come across “Green” organisations promoting solar thermal in the same way as solar PV? Money perhaps?
Ray, I have spent 30 years trying, one way or another, to fathom the Green mind. It is one of the great failures of my life! The conclusion I reached is that like all cultists they have delegated their thought processes and are broadly as intelligent (on green matters certainly) as a sophisticated ‘I Speak Your Weight’ machine.
It’s not just Greens either. My first serious climate discussion was with two drinking buddies, one of whom was an ex-Para, highly qualified engineer who had a small but important rôle in the development of the UK’s nuclear submarine fleet and the other was an equally qualified engineer who worked for one of the UK electricity distribution companies!
If scientists were saying it, it just had to be true!
As a trustee of Devon CPRE (a separate charity from National CPRE), I can assure you that our members are opposed to the position of National CPRE. Over the last 10 years or so we have spent most of our time campaigning against solar farms, wind farms and anaerobic digesters in Devon (as well as inappropriate housing developments) and we are totally supported by our members. National CPRE is a left wing, woke organisation which believes all the propaganda about the climate emergency and NetZero.
Devon has the good fortune to have people like yourself, Phillip, who have not yet been suborned by lots of prestige and high salaries. Organisations like the CPRE should be a federation of local groups, never a centralised body which cannot ever reconcile the requirements of Devonians and Northumbrians and ends up at best “left-ish” because that is how the “left” works (and I don’t just mean ‘left’ politically; ‘left’ as a frame of mind crosses party boundaries). They are self-centred control freaks whose one common trait above all others is that “they know best”.
Phillip: you and your fellow trustees in Devon are not alone. An old friend is chair of CPRE Hertfordshire. When I received the CPRE leaflet I made some notes about solar panels and sent them to him suggesting that he might pass them on to Roger Mortlock. What happened was most interesting.
Go here: https://cliscep.com/2023/05/21/the-uks-net-zero-policy/ and scroll down through the comments to the 4th comment on 12 June (where I refer to you). Follow the story from there.
Thanks Robin, I will pass it onto my colleagues.
Phillip:
I’ve just received a copy of CPRE CEO Roger Mortlake’s reply to my friend at CPRE Hertfordshire – a reply to his email that enclosed my note on solar panels. Here’s the relevant part of the reply:
‘I have had feedback on both sides on this one – and recognise (latterly) that our policy on energy predates the Assembly though was consulted on widely with the Network.’
Not much there then. I wonder if anyone at CPRE Devon was included in the wide consultation. No one at CPRE Hertfordshire was.
Financial support
Develop a holistic set of market-based actions
to kickstart the rooftop revolution for
homeowners, landlords, small businesses
and community energy projects including::
a. Government backed low-cost loans for
domestic and commercial rooftop solar
installations as well as small-scale community
support to encourage a step change in
installation rates.
b. Upgrades to the Smart Export Guarantee
to ensure higher minimum tariffs are available
to homeowners and businesses selling
electricity from rooftop solar installations to
reduce payback periods and improve
investment viability.
Subsidy required, particularly for the negative value surpluses in summer, as well as for the financing
6 Grid capacity
Work with Ofgem to require Distribution
Network Operators across the country to
invest in local grid capacity to better
accommodate increased generation from
solar and heat pumps. This should deliver new
connections in a timelier manner and ensure
that businesses and property owners
interested in installing solar panels on their
rooftops are quoted reasonable and
proportionate connection costs and timescales.
More subsidy required for network costs. Doesn’t even mention the need for transmission capacity, storage and interconnectors that would attempt to handle surpluses at great cost.
It ignores the fact that solar installations have risen in cost recently. Almost for sure their cost assumptions are sadly out of date. Many of the AR4 solar projects will struggle to get built, just as most of the previous solar CFD supported parks did.
The old Alinski trick of using the opposition’s terminology against them.
A. and B. have FA to do with “market-based.” They are clearly fascist.
Is it about CO2 ?
Every solar panel in the cloudy UK
has been transported from China past sunny Africa
where they’d be working much harder.
You might think this would presage an end to greenwash advertising.
https://www.current-news.co.uk/shell-adverts-banned-over-misleading-clean-energy-claims/
But you would probably be wrong. Only transitioning oil companies are targeted. They’re certainly misleading, but no more so than say E.On.
A good letter in the Torygraph this morning:
Ah Roger Mortlock that renowned scientist who has a BA in English Language and Literature. Guess he really is an authority on energy generation, and agriculture and……..
https://www.linkedin.com/in/roger-mortlock-84041a8/?originalSubdomain=uk
How on earth do these unqualified people finagle their way into such positions?
CPRE – Campaign for the Politicisation of Renewable Energy
Slightly off topic but this is the aerial image of Bradford West Sub Station.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/53°48'40.0“N+1°52’00.0″W/@53.8103382,-1.8656743,402m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d53.8111111!4d-1.8666667?entry=ttu
Nothing too sexy unless substations are your thing…BUT …zoom into the area to the top left of the Red Kite marker. That square compound is an OFFICIAL MET OFFICE WEATHER STATION. No I am not taking the piss but quite clearly the Met Office are.
Tell your friends and acquaintances that the UK Met Office put weather stations in places less reliable than your garden shed roof and they probably will not believe you. But they really do.
I did click the link and it took me to the Gulf of Guinea, somewhere off the African coast.
You need to include the full link, mark the full length with the mouse and then it will work.
I’m obliged.
Reported in the Daily Telegraph – IT’S TOO HOT FOR SOLAR PANELS…..
“ Britain has started burning coal to generate electricity for the first time in a month and a half, after the heatwave made solar panels too hot to work efficiently.
One unit at Uniper’s Ratcliffe-on-Soar coal power plant in Nottinghamshire started producing electricity for the first time in weeks on Monday morning, while another coal-powered plant was warmed up in case it was needed by the early afternoon.”
It’s Alice in Wonderland time.
With perfect timing…
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/06/12/britain-fires-up-coal-plant-weather-too-hot-solar-panels/
“Britain has started burning coal to generate electricity for the first time in a month and a half, after the heatwave made solar panels too hot to work efficiently.”
Oh good grief, I’ve seen it all now!
Solar panels don’t work when the Sun’s shining too hard – at fifty-odd degrees North!
And yet that Octopus fellow whatsisname is going to put them all over the Sahara Desert and run a cable all the way round Spain and Portugal to harvest some more subsidies…
Here in York (54°N), a neighbour has just plastered solar panels all over his front pitched roof.
He has also done the same over the rear pitch.
I guess that when the front gets too hot, he’ll be able to use the back, instead. And vice versa.
I’ll have to ask if he has added more panels to the interior of his loft space to generate when it is dark outside.
Off topic but just seen a holiday advert for Alaska voiced over by Joanna Lumley. So she is happy to take the money advertising the long haul flight holiday but https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/oct/26/joanna-lumley-wartime-rationing-solve-climate-crisis#:~:text=Joanna%20Lumley%20has%20suggested%20that,to%20tackle%20the%20climate%20crisis.
Can’t beat hypocrisy can you.
She’s always advertising those Antarctica cruises with Hurtigruten. Even further by air to Ushuaia for boarding. I see the cruise company have a new vessel design that claims to be zero carbon. Not for Antarctica though, and I would be unwilling to use it probably even in summer.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2023/06/07/future-of-cruising-norways-hurtigruten-unveils-radical-zero-emission-ship-design/
Indeed, The Gruaniad. the very pinnacle of hypocricy.
Front page: we are all going to die and it our fault.
Travel page: A selection of far flung exotic places that should have been underwater by now but are still building holiday accomodation for some reason, but as I was reprimanded by a reader from Islington I recall they are all short haul flights. So thats ok.
Some of you might be interested in:
https://tinyurl.com/app
Your link will be more succinct and not sprawling across the page.
Very dangerous clicking (or even copying and pasting into the address bar) on links that you cannot see where they are actually going.
Much better to see the full link instead of a “shortened” one.
Agree 101%. I recently had my email address of 26 years hacked into apparently by clicking on an abbreviated link that I didn’t check. It is taking forever to sort out – imagine all the people and modern systems that we have nowadays that you have to inform of a new email address to use.
Met a large square triaxial array in mid France and looked for sensors to steer it at the sun. None. Then it struck this rather thick observer that it knew where it was and had been told where the sun would be at any date time! Chinese of course. So clever.
People near me have two large solar panels in a field, that track the sun. I wondered how they did it.