Just Stop The Pylons
December 8, 2023
By Paul Homewood
Euan Mearns has sent me this photo of one of the protest banners which line the A90.
Hopefully the campaign is getting up a head of steam.
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NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT 
Suitable slogan for a T Shirt
Paul, if I may:
Love it !! (:-))
The worst aspect of the unnecessary need for all these new pylons is that a lot of them will b the T-pylons. There are a lot of them in somerset and they look awful. They are white and solid and stand out when the sun is shining on them. They also are shorter, which means they are closer together.
SSEN won’t use T-pylons in Aberdeenshire as they apparently can’t withstand the higher windspeeds up here without putting in massively bigger concrete foundations.
There’s a battle taking place in eastern East Anglia.
The electricity-consuming NIMBY’s are demanding their views aren’t spoiled by the need to get North Sea wind from where it’s generated, to where it’s needed (South Essex, London & N Kent).
Onshore pylons can transfer 6.9GW for £1.136bn.
Their preferred marine-disrupting offshore route will cost £2.475bn for 4GW up to £5.099bn for 6GW.
Those activists expect every other electricity consumer in the land to fork out those extra £billions.
https://www.nationalgrid.com/electricity-transmission/document/146091/download
Click to access Norwich-to-Tilbury-community-newsletter-December-2023.pdf
Does that SSEN Pylons protest have anything to do with this BBC ‘Corrections and Clarifications’ statement yesterday:
“SSEN’s East Coast 400kV project
Reporting Scotland, BBC News website, 1 December 2023
Across the day we provided our audience with an update on developments relating to the project.
Our early reporting summarised the plans as either being “ditched” or “dropped”. Although the initial plans for the sub-station and pylons to go through the heart of Sunset Song land had indeed been dropped, it was felt that given the plans still included the Mearns that our language could have been clearer.
Accordingly, our subsequent reporting, made refence (sic) to the plans having been “changed” or “re-routed”, as this was a clearer summary for our audiences. We apologise that our earlier language was inaccurate.
07/12/23″
https://www.bbc.co.uk/helpandfeedback/corrections_clarifications/
Is there a connection between Euan sending you the photo and name the BBC informs “the plans still included”? 😉
Hmm. If we go to Hydrogen Energy Storage as per the recent Royal Society Report (a system that includes 100 twh of hydrogen in 800 salt storage caverns), then all our power stations may need relocating to Yorkshire.
I am presuming it is easier to pipe electricity than to pipe hydrogen.
And then we will need to triple the number of power stations, to meet total Net Zero by 2050. (ie: an all-electric economy, including all transport, heating, and industry.) That will be 60 new 2 gw hydrogen power stations.
So if we have 120 gw of hydrogen power stations in Yorkshire, then there will need to be a whole load of new pylons, spreading across the country. We could go with underground HVDC cables, but the German Suedlink cable has proved to be a nightmare, with costs rising to €10 billion for 800 km.
Perhaps we could pipe the hydrogen instead? I hear that high pressure hydrogen leaks very easily from pipelines, so would this be possible? Any information on this?
.
RS Report
Large Scale (Hydrogen) Energy Storage
https://royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/low-carbon-energy-programme/large-scale-electricity-storage/
Note the grotesque errors in this report.
They say that 100 twh of hydrogen storage, plus all the electrolysers, all the water de-ionizers, and all the 60 new hydrogen power stations — would only cost £100 billion.
I make it closer to £900 billion.
Ralph
Helium gas is used for leak testing because it can find the tiniest aperture to escape and is inert. There is a gas that can find even tinier gaps – it is called Hydrogen. When testing equipment for use in explosive gas atmospheres, Hydrogen is used as it gives the biggest bang and thus the highest explosion pressure for follow up enclosure pressure tests. Anyone really want to have Hydrogen piped to their house?
Add in that the process to produce Hydrogen is very energy intensive and produces a fuel with a low energy density, there is no chance that it can be used on a large scale.
” I hear that high pressure hydrogen leaks very easily from pipelines, so would this be possible?”
First up the mains gas grid runs at up to 96 bar. Fancy holding the smallest molecule (and its safety odorant) in that? Then Check out the Joule Thomson effect and consider that, highly unusually, hydrogen actually heats up on expansion (pressure reduction) – not a good idea for those throttle points eh?
Then consider this hydrogen is supposed to be produced from electrolysis which has a tendency to produce “unnatural” levels of Ortho to Para hydrogen.
The drop down to the lower energetic state also liberates heat. “Spin Isomers” are not things you put in a washing machine!
The idea of hydrogen as a bulk energy carrier is ridiculous on so many levels it would take days to list them all.
Ray,
that’s interesting, do you have a reference/link to a good primer on the problems with hydrogen.
It would be of use when arguing with greenies wittering on about storage. I can give numbers that shoot down battery and pumped storage as wishful thinking but hydrogen is more difficult – it’s like gas isn’t it.
I’d start with
Click to access Hydrogen-Fuel.pdf
Hi Glen, although a decade old this report gives a good indication of the issues though I find it a bit optimistic in finding solutions.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0360319913006800
This one x
This Sky report is relevant.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/uk-s-electricity-grid-problem/vi-AA1ldBwb?cvid=7b5acc7c2a3f48e09e811956cf3ce4d0&ocid=socialshare&ei=15
It starts by making fatuous claims that batteries should be being used in place of gas to back up wind farms. If batteries could do so economically, they are free to bid to charge up and supply. It then continues to look at issues with the grid, with Jeremy Hunt delivering the nanny state message.
Hydrogen (H2) is NOT AN ENERGY SOURCE or a Fuel.
It’s an energy store, like … a flywheel, a spring, an elastic band,
So you always have to put more energy in, than you’ll ever get out.
( the laws of thermodynamics can’t be changed to suit the latest popular ‘magic thinking’ !! )
***
4 main sources of commercial production of hydrogen …
Natural gas; 48%, (Steam reforming )
Oil, 30%; ( gasification )
Coal,18%; ( gasification )
All above produce CO2 (which some see as a bad thing )
Water Electrolysis; 4%, = no CO2.
‘Green Hydrogen’ from Electrolysis of water,
the bits nobody talks about …
An 80% efficient commercial electrolysis unit uses ~ 50 kWh of energy to convert 9 kg (= 9 litres) of water into just …
1 kg of H2 (plus 8 kg of O2).
plus 15 kWh to compress/cool for for storage.
Total energy input ≈65 kWh.
But that 1 kg of H2 only produces around 14–15 kWh of electricity from most modern 50% efficient fuel cells.
So … you use ~65 kWh of electricity to make ~15 kWh … of electricity !!!!
> 77% loss <
You're 4x better off using the electricity direct.
***
“H2 is 'Green & Clean', the only exhaust is pure water”
Well that's only true … in the laboratory,
( using pure Oxygen & Hydrogen )
In the real world … if you burn H2 in an engine & use air for the Oxygen, you generate –
Nitrogen Oxides ( Nox )
These gases contribute to the formation of smog and acid rain, as well as affecting atmospheric ozone & is harmful to breathing.
So Not 'Green or Clean'
***
Replacing petrol/diesel/natural gas in engines with hydrogen leads to …
~ 50% reduction in engine power, requiring larger engines for same work …
plus ~Twice the NOx ( *nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide; both nasty pollutants* ) of a std diesel.
***
Hydrogen fuel is hazardous because …
– of the low ignition point,
– it has a high combustion energy,
– High-pressure leaks can ignite spontaneously
– the flame is invisible,
– No smell
– it's a thin molecule, it tends to leak easily from tanks; ( it migrates though steel containers & causes metal embrittlement, particularly at welds).
– Hydrogen is explosive in air at concentrations of 4% – 75% ( Methane is safer at, 5-15% )
– An estimated 10 to 17 % of all hydrogen manufactured leaks into the atmosphere during production, storage, transport & use.
( causing environmental problems )
***
Hydrogen is a very useful chemical feedstock & makes an excellent fuel …
But, only when you add carbon atoms ( like Methane CH4 ) –
otherwise it’s tricky, leaky, sneaky and explosive.
Mother Nature ALWAYS knows best !!!
***
The above tells you why we went with petrol, methane, diesel.
Fun fact …
The first Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) 1804 Isaac de Rivaz (Swiss), was powered by Hydrogen; 65yrs before the Otto gas engine.
It appears that hydrogen does occur naturally. From a BBC article:
“Earlier this year Professor Jacques Pironon was searching for methane in the Lorraine Basin, northeast France, when his team made an unexpected discovery.
Around 3,000m underground they found a very large deposit of hydrogen.
The French discovery is not the first time that naturally-occurring hydrogen has been found – there’s already a small well in Bourakébougou, western Mali, and there are also believed to be large deposits in the US, Australia, Russia and a number of European countries.
…However, the discovery in France is believed to represent the largest naturally-occurring deposit of the gas ever found. Prof Pironon estimates there could be 250 million tonnes of hydrogen, enough to meet current global demand for more than two years.
There could be many more hydrogen deposits lying undiscovered around the world – the US Geological Survey (USGS), estimates thousands or perhaps billions of megatonnes.”
Maybe nobody really looked for it before……
They might want to recruit Andrew Neil. He writes in the Mail today:
“Of course, Cop will continue to gather in exotic climes, an annual boondoggle for green grifters, renewable energy hucksters, two-faced fossil fuel executives, snake oil ‘scientists’, political and royal virtue-signallers, billionaire hypocrites, a compliant media addicted to green propaganda and disingenuous green-washers.”
He seems to sum them up nicely!
A logical approach is to construct replacement power stations on or adjacent to existing power station sites, thus taking advantage of existing infrastructure and proviing continuity of work for local residents.
In the absence of proof that humans are responsible for dangerous climate change then anyone who supports the construction of offshore wind turbines needs to acccept responsibility for the construction of these new power lines.
Obviously a completely logical approach Micky so that begs fairly obvious questions. Logic is simply not there and I would suggest deliberately so.
Take Dungeness formerly the site of 2 Magnox reactors, 2 AGRs and the original (now defunct) interconnector to France. The grid connection can obviously support major generation. The local population had such strong support for new nuclear that, when the Labour government chose not to include the site for new plant, they actually raised a petition to get the decision reversed!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12277874
If there had been the usual “rent-a-mob” protestors against Dungeness C I can guarantee many locals would have given them short shrift. I am also pretty confident that Hartlepool residents would not turn away more nuclear.
If a secret ballot were taken in north west Wales I bet Trawsfynydd area residents would opt for a Rolls Royce SMR and in reality I suspect most Anglesey residents would not object to new plant at Wylfa.
Living permanently in EMFs cannot surely be good for you.
If hydrogen is pumped into underground caverns surely at some point it will be at a critical mixture with the expelled air and it will go bang! Remember the syrup tin full of coal gas in the physics lab?
The method is to leach a salt cavern by pumping water down a well and recirculating the brine, and drawing it off to remove dissolved salt, adding more water to keep the cavity filled as leaching progresses (it takes several years to leach a large cavern in a salt formation). When complete, the hydrogen (or methane as with current caverns) is pumped into the cavern displacing brine. Air should never get in. The big cost is in disposing of the concentrated brine. If there was a large scale programme it would probably have to be dispersed at sea rather than creating a local high salt bay.
Natural pressure at cavern depth is quite high even for a standing column of water in the well with no added pressure beyond the atmosphere: it increases by 1 bar for every ~10m of well depth. Any air in the well when water is first introduced gets squeezed out – however, it is usual to use circulating drilling muds to fill the well while it is being drilled to carry away pulverised rock and cool the drill bit. Pressure is needed in the cavern to reduce the risk of it caving in from the weight of overburden exerting pressure on its ceiling. Since rock is much denser than water, that pressure will be rather higher than from a natural water column. Similarly replacing rock with drilling mud helps keep a well from collapse until it is lined with casing.
Once complete, the cavern gets an initial fill of “cushion gas” which provides the minimum operating pressure of the cavern, with further gas pumped in raising the pressure until the maximum safe operating pressure is reached, which determines when the cavern is “full”. Redelivery relies mainly on the pressure in the cavern, although the rate is limited by the size and number of wells used, but it can be speeded up with additional pumping. The “working volume” refers to the quantity of gas that can be stored at the difference between maximum and minimum operating pressure. Cushion gas could be redelivered by refilling the cavern with water or mud at the end of life of the project.
Personal Experience. Down here in Kent we did not get the choice. 50m high pylons from Sandwich to Canterbury for the Nemo Link from Belgium – tough luck, nobody got a say in the matter.
Local MP bitterly opposed it proposing option of the interconnector continuing the route undersea to the existing connections for the BritNed interconnector at Grain. Tough luck again with that idea. (And thanks to the worlds highest proportion of student population we ended up with the only Labour MP in the southeast – a 100% waste of space).
If JSO, XR, IB et alia can get away with illegal protesting then it is fair game for anti pylon protestors to go down the illegal route. Nobody will listen to pleasant or reasoned arguments anymore hence we have “Blade Runners” hacking down ULEZ cameras. It really is starting to be time to get nasty.
SSEN pylons for the National Grid .
Very profitable for ssen. 2 extra points.
1 Just to send electricity from still not built wind turbines on west and north Scottish coast. Will the turbines ever be built ? Will future governments continue to give in to blackmail from renewable lobby ?
2 offshore does make more sense
G Stuart
An often overlooked aspect of hydrogen, briefly mentioned by Ray Sanders above, is leakage into the stratosphere on its way out of the earth into space. Hydrogen reacts rapidly with ozone under the photochemical conditions which produce ozone……. how long will the ozone layer last?