“We do not believe any group of men adequate enough or wise enough to operate without scrutiny or without criticism. We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it, that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. We know that in secrecy error undetected will flourish and subvert”. – J Robert Oppenheimer.
Smart Meters Will Allow Peak Pricing Admits Scottish Power
July 31, 2018
Smart meters will allow energy firms to introduce “surge pricing”, one of Britain’s biggest gas and electric providers has admitted for the first time.
New deals which will mean the price of energy fluctuates every half an hour will be introduced as soon the energy regulator has given them the green light, Scottish Power told the Telegraph.
The controversial tariffs rely on smart meters and will radically change the way households consume energy, leading to them paying more for watching television, charging gadgets and running the washing machine during popular times such as in the mornings and evenings.
Energy prices for customers on such tariffs will peak on special events like Christmas Day and Easter, when millions of households are all using ovens at the same time
Let us all be totally clear – nobody will save money, as the total cost of producing electricity will keep on increasing as more and more subsidised low carbon generation is added.
Any savings from night time usage will be more than offset by higher daytime charges.
The govt claims we will save money, but its obsession with renewables is massively increasing energy bills. Part of this extra cost funds payments to proper power suppliers to provide standby for when wind and solar farms cannot supply. By shifting demand to nighttime, it hopes to marginally reduce these extra costs, but in reality it will make little difference at all.
If we all cook our tea, do our washing and watch TV in the middle of the night, we will still be no better off.
Put another way, for everyone who gains, someone else will lose.
As for having Xmas dinner at 4am, I think I’ll pass!
So let’s get to the nitty gritty. What smart meters are really about is rationing power when intermittent renewables fail to supply.
There will be times when wind and solar are producing little. When that happens, power goes to the highest bidder, and sod the rest.
There is the naive assumption that in our glorious renewable future, we will be able to get by without wind and solar power simply by switching consumption to night. Unfortunately the wind does not always blow at night, and the sun definitely does not shine.
Which raises the question-how will we charge our wonderful EVs?
Finally, let me leave you with this conundrum.
It has been suggested by supporters of smart meters that they “optimise” electricity generation. ie there is unused generation idle at night, which is a waste of money.
So let’s use the same arguments with supermarkets. Would it not be logical for Tesco, Asda and the rest to shut down half of their shops, as half the time they are not full?
Of course, if they did that, there would be times when they had more customers than they could cope with.
Using the smart meter logic though the solution would be easy-double your prices during busy periods, so as to encourage customers to shop at night.
Somehow though, I doubt Tesco’s customers would be too happy!!!
Finally, one further thought.
One of the big factors behind smart meters is to direct EV charging towards nightime. Assuming this provides cheaper electricity rates, what about those poor saps, who make up half the population that have no offstreet parking? They will have no alternative but to pay daytime rates to queue up at public outlets.
And, of course, smart meters also allow suppliers to limit or stop the provision of electricity to selective devices, households or the entire grid that are connected to them. Don’t remember the offer of brownouts and blackouts being part of the advertising push for all of those wonderful ‘free’ smart meters that aren’t free at all. Makes you proud to be contributing to the halt of climate change doesn’t it as per the latest nonsense issued by our beloved Met Office? I dare say you will be forensically destroying their latest Climate Report in due course. I’m completely ‘Stottified’!
This also penalises pensioners and those who work from home. It will push people into doing washing overnight and risk more fires. If there is a high number of electric cars, what time will off peak be? October? Will the nation be sleep deprived because all their off peak appliances come on after they’ve been asleep for an hour?
It seems to me that all these ‘bright ideas’ are considered in solitude and they naver ask what would happen if they were in operation together.
All part of the overall scam to control your energy and indirectly control you. Next comes “due to the abnormal cost increases to provide energy your rates and taxes must go up and it’s all due to the oil industry”! The UK has started its’ road to recovery but I’m afraid the rest of Europe is beyond hope.
This may get scrubbed because my choice in words, but here goes: the UK is seriously fucked up. Between a failure with Brexit, to outlawing free speech, to importing hundreds of thousands of non-assimilating uneducated invaders, to the attempt by government to control every possible thing it can, it’s hard for me as an American to see how they’re doing anything but shooting themselves in the foot at the societal level.
Speaking of shooting; USA/UK homicide and suicide rates per 100,000 (close American relatives make me interested in these numbers). 5.4/1.2 and 14.3/8.5 so 19.7/9.7 combined needless deaths.
Couldn’t agree more.
From a Brit, who voted for Brexit and now sees our Deep State working, successfully, to frustrate the will of the people.
I, for one, am ready for civil disobedience.
However, there’s hope yet. I’m beginning to think the EU would welcome the UK leaving without a deal and will do everything in its power to scupper Mother Theresa’s latest ‘compromise’ deal out of pure spite. I mean they demonstrated their truly spiteful nature when Trump introduced steel tariffs. They ran round finding every American product they could to slap their own tariffs on in a futile attempt to create a negotiating position of their own. If those products deserved tariffs they should have had them applied a long time ago.
In which case she’ll have no choice but to put her money where her mouth was with “No deal is better than a bad deal”.
As someone pointed out to me, May would be far better off striding into the EU offices saying “we’re leaving without a deal, if you want something better, put it on the table and we’ll talk about it”. The same with an Irish border. She should be telling the EU that if they want a border solution they should deal with it, we don’t care if the south is used as a back door for their products.
This provides all the more reason to avoid having a “smart” meter installed in your house. In the future, houses without “smart” meters will have more value than houses with “smart” meters (just like houses without solar panels will have more value than houses with solar panels).
There is no doubt that the combination of useless politicians (like we have had since Maggie) together with incompetent civil servants, has driven the country a long way along the road to ruin.
Just an O/T, but relating to house prices WITHOUT something: once upon a time, the majority of middle-market South African suburban homes had a pool. (We actually DO get it hot during summer, with 30-35 degree temps). Now, all private pools are so hedged around with regulations (to save the kiddies, you know) that when trying to sell a house, actually having a pool is a liability. It’s often easier to just fill the thing in and pave over before trying to sell!
We’ll be driven mad from lack of sleep with our neighbours’ washing machines running all night, although we won’t be able to sleep anyway in the endless heatwaves.
Generators are not idle at night, merely throttled back, i.e. using less fuel. Has anyonw actually done a consumption estimate based on EV numbers. If the numbers are high I don’t see there will be an off peak at nigh any more?
If electricity runs out and they need to ration supply haven’t they always been able to do that by turning off substations, regardless of smart meters ?
They can but it covers everyone including care homes, the dissabled, the elderly, shops, schools, small businesses, etc. This way they could target the young and the healthy. It’s likely to make them less hesitant to use it as a tool.
Yes, but it has been a very rare event because there has always been a wide margin of supply over maximum demand. It has usually only been necessary locally due to equipment failure. However the Government has now created a system in which supply will not meet demand at times when the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t shine.
Is it not fair for energy providers to have the option of charging more in the peak times ?
They have to purchase wholesale from the generators at greatly varying prices.
It would be like someone opening a fruit shop, buying apples wholesale in season at £1/kg and £10 out of season, but being forced to sell retail at one price all year round.
For many years, there was “Economy 7”, where you had a cheaper tariff between about midnight & 5am. The issue here is, the pricing will not be predetermined, you won’t know when you sign up, exactly when your peak rate will be.
@Jeff. Yes, but in this case it’s a fruit that was cheaply available year-round from UK farms, but government legislation is forcing those farms to close and instead requires that the fruit be grown on hugely expensive subsidized sea-farms or in small orchards grown on the roofs of people’s houses!
You have a point but remember, for decades producers have been creating supply to meet demand. The market is now incapable of doing that so they are incentivizing users to adjust demand to supply (which is orders of magnitude more perishable than fruit). From a consumer prospective, some form of energy storage may be necessary where energy is only purchased when it’s cheap. But the decarbonization plans for heating and transportation adds to electricity demands with no increase in supply. Then there is the large seasonal variability in demand that electricity storage can’t even begin to address. The Smart meter exercise reminds me of early GPS systems where people would follow a shortcut on a map only to realize too late they were on a single lane dirt road that was not passable in any season but summer and they become trapped by the elements and can’t get out.
For people living on small , fixed incomes , whether retired or still working, there is a constant need to be able to predict the next month’s expenses. A significant part of that expense is the cost of electricity and gas. If time -of- use pricing, variable for some cause unknown to the consumer, becomes compulsory then it will be more difficult to anticipate the ongoing cost of basic living, let alone enjoyable living.
How can this be regarded as “progress” . Only the rich and those whose living expenses are subsidised (like MPs) can afford any complacency about such a morally indefensible scheme.
The electricity system is largely fixed cost, with generators working even when there’s little or no demand. That’s why we have off-peak electricity in the first place. You can save small amounts of fuel cost by moving demand around so that it is more evenly spread, but there is an irreducible minimum cost that has to be paid no matter what.
Modelling potential savings on an individual consumption basis whilst ignoring that cost is lunacy. It’s like low-cost airlines – the early bookers are not actually cheaper to fly. If we all booked early, the low prices woypuld vanish and we would all pay the same amount – the cost of the flight divided by the number of passengers.
This is absolutely nuts. We have a civilization in the western world which is able to provide clean water, heating/cooling and electricity. It has come about by invention, innovation and exploration.
By those means we are able to have reliable water by turning on the tap. Reliable heating, cooling and electricity at reasonable prices are available by using the abundant fossil fuels. Exploration has found even greater stores of fossil fuels.
So, why in the world, are people allowing themselves to be pushed back towards the stone age by a bunch of elitist nincompoops? The very idea of intermittent power in the UK simply boggles the mind. The very idea that someone can hide behind the curtains turning your power on and off at whim is unacceptable.
Socialism will always seek absolute control over your lives. It is what socialists do.
-And South African Socialist inefficiency has us back in ‘Load Shedding’ days, with scheduled blackouts. And this, of course, on top of the UNscheduled blackouts (like 8 hours power-off last night). And they want to introduce lots of ‘renewables’ (at 4 times the cost of electricity from coal) plus a ‘carbon tax’ that is going to push up prices, put money into the politicians’ pockets, and achieve b*-all else!
Recently I saw a story on the FB newsfeed about several families from South Africa relocating to Texas. There is a saying in Texas: “Don’t mess with Texas.” They mean it.
They can only Increase bills, because the users will end up paying to have them fitted, if you really believe they are fitting them for free I have very nice Bridge you might like to buy.
I have never seen the actual fitting costs, but it must be at least £100/Customer.
“paying more for watching television, charging gadgets and running the washing machine during popular times ”
Notice how this focusses on trivial, discretionary activities. The reality is shivering in the dark, without light or heating.
And the comment above about disconnecting individual houses instead of whole streets: of course, that policy will never be influenced by who they think you vote for.
NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT 
Reblogged this on Rangitikei Enviromental Health Watch.
And, of course, smart meters also allow suppliers to limit or stop the provision of electricity to selective devices, households or the entire grid that are connected to them. Don’t remember the offer of brownouts and blackouts being part of the advertising push for all of those wonderful ‘free’ smart meters that aren’t free at all. Makes you proud to be contributing to the halt of climate change doesn’t it as per the latest nonsense issued by our beloved Met Office? I dare say you will be forensically destroying their latest Climate Report in due course. I’m completely ‘Stottified’!
This also penalises pensioners and those who work from home. It will push people into doing washing overnight and risk more fires. If there is a high number of electric cars, what time will off peak be? October? Will the nation be sleep deprived because all their off peak appliances come on after they’ve been asleep for an hour?
It seems to me that all these ‘bright ideas’ are considered in solitude and they naver ask what would happen if they were in operation together.
All part of the overall scam to control your energy and indirectly control you. Next comes “due to the abnormal cost increases to provide energy your rates and taxes must go up and it’s all due to the oil industry”! The UK has started its’ road to recovery but I’m afraid the rest of Europe is beyond hope.
This may get scrubbed because my choice in words, but here goes: the UK is seriously fucked up. Between a failure with Brexit, to outlawing free speech, to importing hundreds of thousands of non-assimilating uneducated invaders, to the attempt by government to control every possible thing it can, it’s hard for me as an American to see how they’re doing anything but shooting themselves in the foot at the societal level.
Brexit is a good sign.
The sign maybe good, but the execution isn’t.
Speaking of shooting; USA/UK homicide and suicide rates per 100,000 (close American relatives make me interested in these numbers). 5.4/1.2 and 14.3/8.5 so 19.7/9.7 combined needless deaths.
“This may get scrubbed because my choice in words”
So why use them?
Couldn’t agree more.
From a Brit, who voted for Brexit and now sees our Deep State working, successfully, to frustrate the will of the people.
I, for one, am ready for civil disobedience.
Bitter@twisted
I’m getting to that point as well.
However, there’s hope yet. I’m beginning to think the EU would welcome the UK leaving without a deal and will do everything in its power to scupper Mother Theresa’s latest ‘compromise’ deal out of pure spite. I mean they demonstrated their truly spiteful nature when Trump introduced steel tariffs. They ran round finding every American product they could to slap their own tariffs on in a futile attempt to create a negotiating position of their own. If those products deserved tariffs they should have had them applied a long time ago.
In which case she’ll have no choice but to put her money where her mouth was with “No deal is better than a bad deal”.
As someone pointed out to me, May would be far better off striding into the EU offices saying “we’re leaving without a deal, if you want something better, put it on the table and we’ll talk about it”. The same with an Irish border. She should be telling the EU that if they want a border solution they should deal with it, we don’t care if the south is used as a back door for their products.
Bitter@twisted
An example of the EU’s vindictive, manipulative methods to screw the UK. Very short and very worth reading.
THE EUROPEAN UNION REJECTED GENOME EDITED CROPS
http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/gene-editing-in-agriculture-affectively-banned-in-the-european-union/
This provides all the more reason to avoid having a “smart” meter installed in your house. In the future, houses without “smart” meters will have more value than houses with “smart” meters (just like houses without solar panels will have more value than houses with solar panels).
There is no doubt that the combination of useless politicians (like we have had since Maggie) together with incompetent civil servants, has driven the country a long way along the road to ruin.
My threat of legal action if my energy supplier continued to harrass me to accept a smart meter seems to have done the trick.
Just an O/T, but relating to house prices WITHOUT something: once upon a time, the majority of middle-market South African suburban homes had a pool. (We actually DO get it hot during summer, with 30-35 degree temps). Now, all private pools are so hedged around with regulations (to save the kiddies, you know) that when trying to sell a house, actually having a pool is a liability. It’s often easier to just fill the thing in and pave over before trying to sell!
We’ll be driven mad from lack of sleep with our neighbours’ washing machines running all night, although we won’t be able to sleep anyway in the endless heatwaves.
“…as soon as the regulator gives the green light…”
Which should be never.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/2083/contents/made
But…
Generators are not idle at night, merely throttled back, i.e. using less fuel. Has anyonw actually done a consumption estimate based on EV numbers. If the numbers are high I don’t see there will be an off peak at nigh any more?
If electricity runs out and they need to ration supply haven’t they always been able to do that by turning off substations, regardless of smart meters ?
They can but it covers everyone including care homes, the dissabled, the elderly, shops, schools, small businesses, etc. This way they could target the young and the healthy. It’s likely to make them less hesitant to use it as a tool.
Yes, but it has been a very rare event because there has always been a wide margin of supply over maximum demand. It has usually only been necessary locally due to equipment failure. However the Government has now created a system in which supply will not meet demand at times when the wind doesn’t blow and the sun doesn’t shine.
Is it not fair for energy providers to have the option of charging more in the peak times ?
They have to purchase wholesale from the generators at greatly varying prices.
It would be like someone opening a fruit shop, buying apples wholesale in season at £1/kg and £10 out of season, but being forced to sell retail at one price all year round.
For many years, there was “Economy 7”, where you had a cheaper tariff between about midnight & 5am. The issue here is, the pricing will not be predetermined, you won’t know when you sign up, exactly when your peak rate will be.
@Jeff. Yes, but in this case it’s a fruit that was cheaply available year-round from UK farms, but government legislation is forcing those farms to close and instead requires that the fruit be grown on hugely expensive subsidized sea-farms or in small orchards grown on the roofs of people’s houses!
You have a point but remember, for decades producers have been creating supply to meet demand. The market is now incapable of doing that so they are incentivizing users to adjust demand to supply (which is orders of magnitude more perishable than fruit). From a consumer prospective, some form of energy storage may be necessary where energy is only purchased when it’s cheap. But the decarbonization plans for heating and transportation adds to electricity demands with no increase in supply. Then there is the large seasonal variability in demand that electricity storage can’t even begin to address. The Smart meter exercise reminds me of early GPS systems where people would follow a shortcut on a map only to realize too late they were on a single lane dirt road that was not passable in any season but summer and they become trapped by the elements and can’t get out.
For people living on small , fixed incomes , whether retired or still working, there is a constant need to be able to predict the next month’s expenses. A significant part of that expense is the cost of electricity and gas. If time -of- use pricing, variable for some cause unknown to the consumer, becomes compulsory then it will be more difficult to anticipate the ongoing cost of basic living, let alone enjoyable living.
How can this be regarded as “progress” . Only the rich and those whose living expenses are subsidised (like MPs) can afford any complacency about such a morally indefensible scheme.
Smart meters won’t save money because they can’t.
The electricity system is largely fixed cost, with generators working even when there’s little or no demand. That’s why we have off-peak electricity in the first place. You can save small amounts of fuel cost by moving demand around so that it is more evenly spread, but there is an irreducible minimum cost that has to be paid no matter what.
Modelling potential savings on an individual consumption basis whilst ignoring that cost is lunacy. It’s like low-cost airlines – the early bookers are not actually cheaper to fly. If we all booked early, the low prices woypuld vanish and we would all pay the same amount – the cost of the flight divided by the number of passengers.
Electricity demand on Christmas day is actually very low (the big dip in the middle), as is wind power on many days of the year:
This is absolutely nuts. We have a civilization in the western world which is able to provide clean water, heating/cooling and electricity. It has come about by invention, innovation and exploration.
By those means we are able to have reliable water by turning on the tap. Reliable heating, cooling and electricity at reasonable prices are available by using the abundant fossil fuels. Exploration has found even greater stores of fossil fuels.
So, why in the world, are people allowing themselves to be pushed back towards the stone age by a bunch of elitist nincompoops? The very idea of intermittent power in the UK simply boggles the mind. The very idea that someone can hide behind the curtains turning your power on and off at whim is unacceptable.
Socialism will always seek absolute control over your lives. It is what socialists do.
True, people don’t even know how to make fire nowadays.
Personally, I use a match. I do know the concept of starting a fire.
-And South African Socialist inefficiency has us back in ‘Load Shedding’ days, with scheduled blackouts. And this, of course, on top of the UNscheduled blackouts (like 8 hours power-off last night). And they want to introduce lots of ‘renewables’ (at 4 times the cost of electricity from coal) plus a ‘carbon tax’ that is going to push up prices, put money into the politicians’ pockets, and achieve b*-all else!
Recently I saw a story on the FB newsfeed about several families from South Africa relocating to Texas. There is a saying in Texas: “Don’t mess with Texas.” They mean it.
Control, over you, that is what is required, ‘smart meters’ exercise ultimate control – remotely done, perfect but not for the consumer, period.
They can only Increase bills, because the users will end up paying to have them fitted, if you really believe they are fitting them for free I have very nice Bridge you might like to buy.
I have never seen the actual fitting costs, but it must be at least £100/Customer.
“paying more for watching television, charging gadgets and running the washing machine during popular times ”
Notice how this focusses on trivial, discretionary activities. The reality is shivering in the dark, without light or heating.
And the comment above about disconnecting individual houses instead of whole streets: of course, that policy will never be influenced by who they think you vote for.
Vote for Our Dear Leader – or freeze.