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Carbon Taxes? Happer & Everett Respond

December 13, 2022

By Paul Homewood

 

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London, 13 December – The Global Warming Policy Foundation recently published a new paper by Professor Peter Hartley (Rice University) which argued in favour of carbon taxes as the economically optimal way to address global warming.
The paper’s appearance prompted some controversy among climate sceptics and resulted in the submission of a critique from Professor Will Happer and Dr Bruce Everett. 
Their criticism and Professor Hartley’s response are now being published in an open debate format. 
Dr Benny Peiser, the GWPF’s director said:
“Many climate sceptics criticised us for publishing Professor Hartley’s paper, but we at the GWPF do not fear discussion of controversial issues. In sharp contrast to climate orthodoxy and dogmatism, we foster a culture of open and fair debate. That’s why we continue to invite authoritative experts and critics to comment formally on our reports. As the energy crisis deepens, the need for open debate has never been more urgent.”

Are carbon taxes a good idea?
Happer and Everett versus Hartley (pdf)

I covered the Hartley paper at the time, writing:

The paper appears to be rather muddled.

It begins by labelling carbon dioxide as “pollution”. It cannot be overemphasised that it is nothing of the sort. Unfortunately this sloppy thinking leads the author down the road of a Pigouvian tax – the “polluter pays principle”. Yet as the paper acknowledges, there is no evidence that increasing levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere are detrimental, even if they have led to a small amount of warming.

And even if such damage did occur in future, how would we be able to quantify it? By setting a tax too high, we would end up causing much greater economic damage.

I would not disagree that mandating/subsidising renewable energy is probably the worst policy, as it is government and not market driven. But worse still, Hartley does not seem to recognise the monumental risks being taken over grid and energy security by this over reliance on wind and solar power.

But the real economic objection to a carbon tax is that it will end up having the same result as our current policies. Fossil fuels will end up being priced out use, and society will be left with an unreliable and expensive alternative, just the same as it is now.

Whatever the costs of global warming may or may not be in decades time, we know for a fact that the wellbeing of people around the world will suffer now without access to cheap, reliable fossil fuels. Eventually some new technology will come along, which will replace fossil fuels because it is better.

That is how economics works, and why the world is so much better off than it used to be. We should not be trying to interfere in that process.

Happer and Everett conclude:

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Curiously in his response Hartley seems to accept every point made by Happer and Everett.

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19 Comments
  1. December 13, 2022 2:50 pm

    Reblogged this on Climate Collections.

  2. Harry Passfield permalink
    December 13, 2022 3:09 pm

    I’m afraid I really had to look up Pigouvian having never heard the term before. So, for the benefit if any others in the same boat:

    A Pigouvian tax, named after 1920 British economist Arthur C. Pigou, is a tax on a market transaction that creates a negative externality, or an additional cost, borne by individuals not directly involved in the transaction. Examples include tobacco taxes, sugar taxes, and carbon taxes.

    • Realist permalink
      December 13, 2022 3:42 pm

      Looks more like a tax on something those imposing it personally don’t like.

      It is the tax itself that creates the negative effect on individuals, not only for product X but also all the other products that they now have less money for and thus the knock-on effects .

      >>tax on a market transaction that creates a negative externality

  3. It doesn't add up... permalink
    December 13, 2022 3:37 pm

    The context here is that the EU has just agreed to implement carbon border taxes on steel, cement, fertiliser and aluminium, with broader extension planned for all imports. This is supposed to protect EU manufacturers from competition from those who prefer to produce at low cost without paying carbon indulgences. In reality, it just guarantees a more expensive life for its citizens, impoverishing them. It harms export competitiveness, and so manufacturing would implode anyway.

  4. Dung permalink
    December 13, 2022 3:53 pm

    I recently wrote to GPWF and asked why they look to present a ‘balanced’ view as opposed to presenting the facts, got no answer

  5. Curious George permalink
    December 13, 2022 4:11 pm

    I can say one good thing for alarmists: They have a great imagination. So do thieves.

  6. Jack Broughton permalink
    December 13, 2022 4:18 pm

    Who collects the taxes and what is the use of the money? In the case of Carbon taxes it seems to be just a revenue stream for the Inland Revenue by increasing taxes on a sector of the economy that is struggling already: i.e. heavy industry. As with steel, the government will have to choose between subsidising the, already struggling, industry and losing another national security product. We already experienced the nonsense of the lack of national security concern with PPE and test equipment for Covid, where the UK was unable to make simple components, as all the relevant factories had been closed as non-competitive with cheap overseas products. It is time that we had a minister charged with protecting the UK from external trade threats, as the USA do.

    • dave permalink
      December 13, 2022 4:31 pm

      Hey ho!

      Discussions about tax remind me of surgeons who have cut open a victim for exploratory purposes and are wondering which of the many organs to harvest for sale.

      • dave permalink
        December 13, 2022 4:37 pm

        I just noticed athat “US Energy Official announce announces fusion energy success that could ‘revolutionize the word.’
        It was from the Guardian so it must be true. The detail lower down was true. The official also said it would be a long time before the technology could be used…

        Same old same old – total BS!

      • December 14, 2022 11:20 am

        To be able to export electricity the system needs a ratio above 1 and the current ratio for this experiment was 0.03. Nuff said.

  7. December 13, 2022 4:30 pm

    Are carbon taxes a good idea?

    No, because they can’t ‘address global warming’ as someone claims. Next!

  8. December 13, 2022 6:08 pm

    In my view, publication of a paper titled “It Pollutes, So Tax It: Need We Say More About Carbon Dioxide” by the GWPF (and without even the quotation marks!) is perhaps the silliest, or most unfortunate thing the GWPF has done.
    (Which admittedly says a lot about how brilliant they normally are.)

    There ensued some correspondence between Benny Peiser and myself, ending in him agreeing to circulate my comments to the Board of Trustees. Probably this excellent riposte from Happer & Everett (one to save to the old Hard Disk!) was already in preparation.

    Clearly, Free Speech cuts both ways. I’m more than happy for the GWPF to publish a paper by anyone as barmy as they like (Ed Miliband? – if it is right at the end of March), but they must make it absolutely clear, right there on the cover, that the GWPF does NOT accept that CO2 is a pollutant.

  9. Max Beran permalink
    December 14, 2022 12:51 am

    Presented as a debate but from what I could see you couldn’t put a fag wrapper between the two combatants other than perhaps the semantic point of the meaning ascribed to the word “pollutant”. I was certainly told (by air quality colleagues) that a contaminant is something that isn’t there naturally and a pollutant is a contaminant that is harmful. At least, they told me this when in pedantic mode picking on something I had expressed carelessly, but I noticed that in normal everyday usage (and even in textbooks) they are as likely to slip into the same imprecision without giving it a second thought.

    I guess it’s hard maintaining “terminological exactitude” with words that are both used technically and in everyday parlance such as pollution. Also I do notice that GWPF do cut a deal of slack to those adopting the luke-warmist position (like Lomborg). I suppose it’s a matter of choosing your battles – they’re primarily concerned with policy responses for which it is not essential to take a hard line on “the science”.

  10. liardetg permalink
    December 14, 2022 10:37 pm

    Isn’t it time to have a campaign (j hate those words) to tell everyone that increase in CO2 is not going to make any change to the weather? Get that across and the scam collapses.

    • Realist permalink
      December 15, 2022 7:34 am

      Long overdue, yet there are still gullible people who believe the scam.
      >>Isn’t it time to have a campaign (j hate those words) to tell everyone that increase in CO2 is not going to make any change to the weather?

  11. Gamecock permalink
    December 14, 2022 10:56 pm

    Ignorant blather.

    ‘Pigouvian Tax’ is a perversion of Pigou’s thesis. He suggested charging a fee on the producer of a product that produced external costs, equal to those costs. In modern economics, the producer would just add the fee to the cost of the product, hence ‘tax.’ Pigou suggested no such thing.

    The problem with the so-called Pigouvian Tax is that it does nothing to address the alleged external costs. It just gives money to the government.

    Suppose A selling you, B, a loaf of bread causes cost to C. The government, via Pigouvian Tax, charges A the cost to C. C gets nothing. He’s still *&^%ed. Government gets richer. Nothing else changes.

    ‘Carbon taxes’ relate to energy production. Energy cost is notoriously inelastic. A carbon tax will raise prices. A carbon tax will give more revenue to government.

    What’s not to like?

  12. December 15, 2022 2:57 pm

    Reblogged this on Calculus of Decay .

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