John Lewis stops insuring electric cars over repair cost fears
By Paul Homewood
h/t Paul Kolk
And in yet more bad news for the EV rollout:
John Lewis has stopped offering insurance to electric car drivers amid fears over the cost of repairs.
The department store’s lending business John Lewis Financial Services has put a temporary pause on customers taking out cover or renewing existing policies on battery-power vehicles while its underwriter, Covéa, analyses risks and costs.
Insurers are facing rising costs for vehicle repairs, which are eating into profits. According to the Association of British Insurers (ABI), vehicle repair costs rose 33pc over the first quarter of 2023 compared to 2022, helping to push annual premiums to record highs.
Electric cars can be particularly expensive to repair, costing around a quarter more to fix on average, compared to a petrol or diesel vehicle, according to Thatcham Research, the motor industry’s research centre.
Particular worries surround the batteries, which are commonly mounted on the floor of the vehicle. This placement can make it more likely that it will be damaged even in a minor accident such as mounting a kerb.
According to Copart, an auction platform, around half the low-mileage electric vehicles it has salvaged have suffered minor battery damage.
The battery is also generally the most expensive part of an electric car and can account for as much as 50pc of the vehicle’s value, costing between £14,200 and £29,500.
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NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT 
A friend pointed out to me that there is news of a car model (unknown) that will soon do 1,000 miles on a charge. My question to him – which he couldn’t understand(!) – was: if you ran the car for close to the 1,000 miles of charge, how long would it take to fully charge it with a) a home charger, or b) a motorway charger, bearing in mind that if you tried to do it on a motorway service area you might face aggro from EV drivers waiting in the queue?
There is no magic way of making a car with no wind or rolling resistance , and electric motors are nearly at their max possible energy efficiency .For his 1000 miles range it would need a 300 KWh battery .
So over 42 hours to charge at home .
“John Lewis” never heard of that company
The Tesla Mod Y is the top selling passenger car model sold in the US
That charging time of 58 hours ? 110v
It is cut in half if the homeowner is using 220v
The Tesla semis run by Pepsi use 750v
There best 24 hour run was 804 miles regionally with many hooks and drops. They avg 420 nearly always loaded. 1/2 of all class 8 trucks are day cabs. The average class 8 trucks goes about 50000miles per year
And , es I do have a class A
Do you ?
@John Ryan -what are you actually trying to say?
A Tesla Model Y has a 75kWh battery. Real world tests indicate a range between 195 miles (probable) up to 395 miles (incredibly unlikely) with a likely range of 270miles.
https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1619/Tesla-Model-Y-Long-Range-Dual-Motor
And who give a toss about a “class A” whatever that is?
@John Ryan
I assume you’re an American.
So, a bit of education for you.
John Lewis is a large UK Department store chain.
The UK uses a 240V domestic supply.
The Tesla Y is also the UK’s best selling EV, the Chinese-built MG4 the second best.
We’ve no EV HGVs running in the UK, to my knowledge.
or from my second floor apartment
Not a good news day for battery cars! Just need a few more to catch fire, who in their right mind would actually purchase one of these death traps. Almost all sales are business, with generous tax relief.
And presumably this is having a knock-on effect on ICE car premia as well, as the chances of hitting an EV are increasing.
So total cost of ownership increases (presuming insurers do continue to insure EVs, but at a much higher premium). That makes it more likely that private vehicles become a luxury after 2035, that only the wealthy can afford. That suits the Green agenda, but before bourgeois greens get too smug about their entritlement as the new ruling class, they ought to spare a thought for their fortunes once AI takes their jobs. Anyone tried Bard for legal advice? It’s scarily good. AI’s professional automation is coming for the birthright jobs all the Phoebe Plummers and Greta Thunbergs thought they would have.
How on earth did these EVs with a lethally combustive battery, very difficult to put out, pass the allegedly rigourous country safety tests? Why is there no automatic fire extinguisher capable of combating a lithium fire that is activated when the car is locked? Did not Ralph Nader campaign long and hard for significant safety measures when certain US car makes developed a scary tendency to catch fire?
If fire brigades struggle to put out lithium-ion battery fires (or infernos), what chance has a small extinguisher got?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_runaway#Batteries
Precisely…..it would have to be substantial and therefore not viable – hence my comment; somehow some safety requirements for EVs has been “weakened”…can’t believe that,,,
If the policy is to let EVs burn out …whats the need for a fire brigade
Aye that Ralph Nader, and Seatbelts? Debate still rages on from time to time regarding stupid driving “Because ” they wear seatbelts and those who are TRAPPED by the belts and suffer accordingly ….
Stupid driving a consequence of seat belted over confident idiots? And the “trapped” are better off surviving the accident that “traps” them by the seat than being catapulted into the dash or windscreen…or both? Or would you remove seat belts because of airbags?
Before I am shot down in flames, I realise that this comment is totally subjective but has a couple of valid points.
I have been driving cars for 50+ years with 20+ years of driving 18,000 miles pa. Not once was I ever unable to free myself from the seatbelt! Ditto with my wife, three grown up children, who also drive and are/were passengers in my cars..
If it were an issue, I am certain that all cars would by law, be required to carry a sharp implement to sever the seatbelt in an emergency.
Having thought this through, should not all EV’s have to such an implement, due to the propensity of their batterys’ to spontaneously combust?
Out of interest, someone once inserted their Lotus into my Fiat Punto. Couldn’t open the door to get out, then smoke started appearing under the bonnet. At that point, I discovered that the seat belt wouldn’t unfasten. One of the most frightening days of my life.
Managed to climb through the seatbelt and out the broken window.
LV have put this on their website as reasons to increase their premiums ( which I successfully haggled south for the 4th year running…);
Labour costs for repairs: up 50% since 2019, due to inflation, shortage of skilled workers and the energy crisis. (Source: Auto Body Professionals)
Cost of vehicle repairs: up 46% since last year. Reflecting rising costs, energy inflation and more expensive repairs. (Source: ABI)
Vehicle theft: up 20.8% last year compared to the previous year, leading to increased claims. (Source: data from ONS)
Paint: prices went up 20% in 2022 and most claims require paint work. (Source: ABI)
Courtesy cars: the cost of courtesy cars has jumped up 52% – an important part of our service. (Source: ABI)
High-tech: vehicles with sensors, cameras and high voltage systems are raising the cost of replacement parts and also require specialist labour to fit.
Long-term care: providing care for people with life-changing injuries (customers, other drivers, passengers and pedestrians) accounts for around 30% of our claims cost. (Source: LV= data)
There has been a suggestion that the insane introduction of 20mph zones has something to do with battery cars and their increased weight. Personally, having worked with idiots in councils, I doubt it and it is all about walking and cycling.
In the States, School Zone Speed Limits (SZSL) are set locally or by each state at 15, 20, or 25 mph. This has been so since Ol’Shep was a pup, so has nothing to do with EVs.
A west coast native quail, California Quail (Callipepla californica), act like little Kamikaze critters running one way and then another and reversing again while deciding the best way of avoiding an on-coming auto.
Small school children behave the same way and, now, increasingly folks listening and watching their cell phones pay no attention to traffic.
I suspect many councils from at least the 1990s onwards spent up money left over before the end of the financial year on “traffic calming.”
20mph zones used to be treated the same way as stop signs until the end of the 1990s as the British government didn’t want stop signs to be as overused as they are in the United States so people lose respect for them and make California stops.
“3.8 STOP signs, other than at junctions with tramways, will be approved only where visibility is so restricted that it is essential for drivers to stop before entering the major road. The sign will be well respected only if drivers can see the need for it. The possibility of making a visibility improvement at a junction should always be investigated before considering a STOP sign. Restriction of visibility caused, for example, by a hedge that can be reduced in height or removed will not normally justify a STOP sign, particularly as highway authorities have powers under section 79 of the Highways Act 1980 to remove obstructions to visibility at junctions.”
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Traffic_Signs_Manual/Chapter_3/2008/3
The insane introduction of 20mph zones & LTN for that matter I think is an attempt to use the Helen Lovejoys of this world to attack working class car ownership,
Working in London, spare money was not used on traffic calming and plans had to be submitted to TfL for approval and funding. 20mph zones were put in the proposals to TfL and funding provided. Anything not spent would have to be given back.
The requirement for Secretary of State approval for Stop signs was revoked. The explosion of 20mph zones is because the requirement for repeater signs in street lit roads has been revoked so they are now like 30mph restrictions.
“Working in London, spare money was not used on traffic calming and plans had to be submitted to TfL for approval and funding. 20mph zones were put in the proposals to TfL and funding provided. Anything not spent would have to be given back.”
I was thinking about the 1990 & early 2000s when councils went mad with speed bumps and road narrowing.
Why is TfL who has financial issues funding council maintained roads?
“The explosion of 20mph zones is because the requirement for repeater signs in street lit roads has been revoked so they are now like 30mph restrictions.”
That surely must mean these limits are unenforceable due to it contradicting the highway code as it would be possible in many urban areas to get in a car & drive around in 1 of these zones without ever seeing a change of speed limit sign so it would be rational to believe the default urban 30 mph speed limit was in force.
A London borough could spend its own money on traffic schemes but at Sutton there wasn’t any so it all came from TfL via the LIP funding. This meant the schemes had to meet TfL ideals so it was impossible to deal with a major problem in the borough of a large council estate built with lots of grass areas because the tenants would never own cars. Of course they now do so the obvious answer was to convert the grass areas but TfL would not fund anything that helped car owners.
If you parachuted into a 20mph area then yes you would not see any 20mph signs. But in the normal world you would have passed a sign at some point where there is a change for some other speed limit. There are likely to be 20s painted on the road as they are much cheaper but the whole idea which I assume you understand is that where streetlighting exists and there is nothing to the contrary then the speed limit can be either 20mph or 30mph with signs at the boundaries. It is the removal of the cost of repeater signs that has helped drive these 20mph zones forward without the need for any traffic calming.
“TfL would not fund anything that helped car owners.”
Surely this behaviour is potentially unlawful when its job is to manger the road network since I’m guessing those vehicles are parked on the road so this could be causing congestion which creating off road parking could reduce. We also have the issue of the equality act 2010 public sector equality duty I would say indirect sex discrimination as this attuite would disproportionally affect jobs done by lower income women like care work & cleaning and in particularly ignores safety issues with shift work. It also doesn’t take into account the issue of childcare as public transport use can in some circumstance only be feasible by paying for additional childcare. We of course have disability discrimination direct and indirect (think making it more difficult for unpaid carers to help elderly or disabled friend and families) as well as ignoring the fact we have an aging population.
Anyway I wonder if they would fund it if you suggested it could be designed for electric vehicles charging.
“If you parachuted into a 20mph area then yes you would not see any 20mph signs. But in the normal world you would have passed a sign at some point where there is a change for some other speed limit.”
You don’t need to be parachuted into a 20mph area all you need to do is get into a car already parked in a 20 mph zone and drive only within the borough on residential roads (which many do) as just thinking where I used to live in inner London before this madness with virtue signalling 20 mph limits you never saw speed limit signs because the default urban 30 MPH speed limit applied unless you got onto a road with a 40 MPH limit.
“the whole idea which I assume you understand is that where streetlighting exists and there is nothing to the contrary then the speed limit can be either 20mph or 30mph with signs at the boundaries. ”
Yes I understand the streetlighting = default urban 30 MPH speed limit unless signed overwise rule my problem is the law should have certainty I drive on too many roads where I would be unsure what the speed limit is unless I used a Sat Nav and with the police giving people speeding tickets for doing 24 MPH on what are main divided roads will bring the police into disrepute especially when you have the rackets that is the speed awareness course that was almost certainly illegally before the law was quietly changed to cover this up – the police choosing to not pursue a prosecution because you pay for a “speed awareness course” was arguably no different to paying the constable who stopped you a bribe.
At some point, moral hazard will become a big problem. EV battery getting old? Run over a stump accidently-on-purpose-like and get your insurance to buy you a new one.
Battery life problem solved.
Agreed; it is apparent with deliberate re-endings etc. EV premiums should be hypothecated into a separate risk pool which will mean that premiums will sky rocket until the fire risk is solved and battery design and manufacture is very different. I can only guess at the pressure applied by EV manufacturers to NOT have a separate risk pool – which means that non EV car owners are subsidising EV car owners premiums, at least to some extent.
does your Insurance policy replace old with new?
Bear in mind the difference in energy density by weight between diesel and the best current battery technology is around two orders of magnitude:
Diesel: 44.8MJ/kg, lithium-ion battery: 0.46-0.72MJ/kg.
That means for the same distance the best battery weighs 44.8 / 0.72 = 67.8 times as much as a tank of diesel.
That’s before taking into account that a diesel tank run full to empty weighs on average half its weight when full and a battery weighs the same charged or flat.
All the improved battery technology in the known universe isn’t going to compensate for that.
The ClimateCult™ will outlaw the laws of physics and chemistry. Well, they would try if they knew what they are.
California revamped its highways soon after atomic bombs made Japan surrender–the ability to evacute and spread thin being a defense advantage. Brainwashing against cars, electricity, bomb shelters and ABM systems are precisely what any totalitarian dictator expects from useful idiots & tools installed in potential enemy territory. “Overload” by Arthur Hailey is a good re-read. Hailey was in the RAF when totalitarian tool William Joyce was urging England to surrender to National Socialism.
Even the Guardian has started to realise the con!
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/sep/30/the-quotes-were-5000-or-more-electric-vehicle-owners-face-soaring-insurance-costs
Lots of businesses are also starting to ban battery vehicles parking in their properties, including multi storey car parks (for weight and self combustion risk), hotel car parks etc