Will We Subsidise The Import Of Chinese EVs?
November 30, 2023
By Paul Homewood
Peter Lilley raised a very pertinent question about the ZEV mandate in the House of Lords on Monday:
In reply, the Minister Lord Davies answered a separate issue raised by Lord Lilley, but gave no answer at all about the China question.
Either he simply does not understand how the system will work, or was afraid to admit that we could end up paying billions in subsidies to Chinese EV manufacturers:
43 Comments
Comments are closed.
NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT 
Another incompetent and ignorant government minister. Thank goodness Liebore is full of competent people!
Is there any other kind??
“only a third of the lifecycle emissions of an equivalent petrol car”
Really? Sorry, but that is so far removed from ALL sensible studies (see GWPF/Net Zero Watch etc etc) on this subject, you can be forgiven for calling it a bare-faced lie.
As for the BEV/ZEV ratio fines, surely Lord Lilley has put the final nail in the policy’s coffin with this analysis – it totally absurd!
Oh, sorry, I forgot, common sense doesn’t matter in green fantasyland.
Utter lunacy! Massive tax burden, idiotic and ignorant drivel about the climate and a government, excuse me, management, utterly unfit for purpose. The destruction of my country is all but complete and my wife and I want to live somethwere else – if only we could somwhere suitable. Suggestions welcome!
Well, you COULD try South Africa – we mostly speak English and the weather’s pretty good. And, of course, the governing ANC is KNOWN to be corrupt, so people can allow for that. Mind you, infrastructure – not so good. The railways that used to service the whole country are virtually non-existent. The roads are therefore full of trucks to carry the stuff that the rails used to, AND those roads are falling apart. A busy main road next to us in Roodepoort had a culvert collapse last December. It finally re-opened yesterday (3rd December), having re-routed heavy traffic (and I mean HEAVY – loads of sand, gravel or stones) through a network of narrow suburban lanes. Crime is bad – one enterprising crook was arrested for attempting to steal a few kilometers of out-of-use railway line to sell for scrap.
One of my most treasured positions is a briefcase made out of old railway sleepers from South Africa (bought there decades ago, so possibly legit). Lovely red wood with patterns.
I use it at all my eco conferences to show my cred. Never fails to get attention.
Now have an extra backstory to ruin the more ardent admirers’ days.
The FT 7th April 2019:
‘Fiat Chrysler pools fleet with Tesla to avoid EU emissions fines”
“Fiat Chrysler Automobiles has agreed to pay Tesla hundreds of millions of euros so the electric carmaker’s vehicles are counted in its fleet in order to avoid large fines for breaking tough new EU emissions rules.”
https://www.ft.com/content/7a3c8d9a-57bb-11e9-a3db-1fe89bedc16e
Peter Lilley was one of the few MPs who voted against the 2008 climate change act, he pointed out hen that this policy would be decided by the courts. So right. Our government peers are pretty thick as are most of our MPs.
Lilley is a very underrated politician. To independent, clear-thinking and principled to have had much of a career in cabinet. Lilley vs Sunak…
When I wrote to my MP about the nonsense of EPCs, Lord Callanan wrote back with a detailed response, but it dodged the real question. So it is here. But there is absolutely no chance whatsoever of 100% of 2035’s electricity needs being met by renewable energy. It is preposterous. We currently store 0.15% of what we need for weather periods like we have now (cold, winter, low sun, no wind), and have no feasible means of making any sort of dent in that. Miliband thinks we should achieve it by 2030!
Claiming its currently 40% is essentially a lie.
I made this point about the benefits of this policy to Chinese electric vehicle manufacturers to my MP, now Chief Secretary to The Treasury, in a email dated 06/10/2023. I am still waiting for a reply.
It is hard to believe you rich Brits do not want to help the poor developing China by transferring your hard-earned wealth and simultaneously helping to stop the existential threat to the world, so thus we can all live in a land of milk & honey.
{Poe’s Law invoked with this comment.}
Basically, in response to a direct question, he just recites a prayer. Which is what the claptrap about emissions is.
They are all clueless.
I ran a garage and MOT station for 25 years and the mention of Hansard here reminded me of a debate I listened too where the MPs where bemoning the the contention that as most MOT stations were in suburban areas ergo they were contributing to local pollution and congestion. one idiot suggested there should be more along the motorway networks.
I remember thinking,people are as sure as hell not thinking of getting an MOT done when traveling to visit far flung relatives!
Idiots, all of them.
Can someone please clarify where the 50% figure comes from in relation to how many permits a Chinese importer will be able to sell?
Aiui, the mandate for next year is for something like 25% of sales to be EV. So an importer selling 100% EVs could sell on permits for 75% of its sales.
He’s simply using 50% as an easily understandable example.
By 2027 of course, the mandate is much higher
Thanks Paul.
So the likes of Tesla, MG and Polestar are going to be quids in.
Remember, each Chinese EV will record your every move, and report it back to the homeland. Some special units will gather additional information beyond your EV to transmit back.
Government ministers dodging straightforward questions ? That’s their job, isn’t it ?!
SMMT figures show BEV market share for year to date at end of Oct as 5.5% in 2020, 9.9% in 21 (a 100% increase), 14.6% in 22 (50%), and 16.3% in 23 (10%). And share for Oct only is actually down this year compared to last. To get to 22% next year requires a 50% increase. So that’s not going to happen!! There’s going to be some gnashing of teeth in Q3 when they are miles off – no idea what will happen. Makers refuse to sell ICE cars?
EVs are niche vehicles. They will not replace general transport vehicles, personal or commercial. Those who are interested in EVs have mostly bought them. Once that limited market is saturated, EV uptake will collapse. I don’t see them ever topping 20% of the public’s vehicles.
I’d bet £1 they will be 100% in the not too distant future. When we refuse to buy EVs, thry will make diesel illegal, then petrol. This is a religious movement in which impoverishing us all to save our souls is quite acceptable.
Your fine government certainly has the power to do that.
“The art of taxation is procuring feathers from a goose with the least amount of hissing.”
The government is obviously prepared to accept inordinate hissing. I don’t see 100%, but I’m sure they’ll go too far.
I suspect that’s right. Fleet buyers are becoming wary as people don’t want to hire them from the rental companies and there’s great uncertainty about second-hand values. After least some EV buyers recant and switch back to ICE cars and the number of new buyers has obviously plateaued pretty much. It will take either greater bribes, more coercion or significant technical advances to change that.
The British electrical grid is crumbling as I write this. Who cares about CCP EVs when their mandatory heat pump does not have enough current to heat their home? England is over, and the politicians are to blame.
Sorry, the focus of our ire is in reality the civil servants that tell ministers what to say when someone asks a question, and also how to dodge one they just do not want to answer. It is our fault that we have elected our politicians that are both ignorant of science and technology, for by far the greater part, and have absolutely no idea how to manage the civil service which, for many years, has become woke and focused on its global aspirations.
We need a complete new swathe of ordinary people that have experience of hard living to be elected, and have the gumption to tell uncooperative civil servants where to go, starting at the top with summary dismissal.
Interesting what is happening in New Zealand, that is kicking out the dross of Labour that has only recently been chucked out. Common sense has come back there. I love the new policy that all policies must conform to supporting the nation first, and not bloated politicians and woke organisations.
Let’s see how successful they are. The pushback is strong e.g. the self-selected representatives of the Maori are claiming ditching the absurd cigarette ban is racist and genocidal because Maoris are the largest group if smokers.
Prosperity, decadence, collapse. UK is in late decadence.
It is unlikely you will escape collapse.
“We need a complete new swathe of ordinary people that have experience of hard living”
The collapse will produce them. Prosperity eliminated them. Decadence comes from the prosperous hanging back, not taking action against the absurd, as they won’t risk their prosperity, though, eventually, they will lose it.
They hope the alligator will eat them last.
Have we had a statement from Govt about a ban on ICE imports? When? I have asked my MP Flick Drummond but no answer. And what about giant diesel lorries – especially those arriving at Dover full of Danish bacon? Not to mention the thousands all over our roads. But the Conservative middle class thinks milk comes from supermarket shelves.
BBC covered this topic in September:
The independent Trade Remedies Authority, the post-Brexit organisation responsible for assessing unfair trade, said it has “invited” carmakers to make a complaint and supply data showing harm done by subsidised Chinese electric vehicles.
Neither the industry body, nor individual carmakers have done so, so far.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66820791
How long can they hold off if/when the £15,000 bills start arriving?
I remain unclear how there can be “subsidies” in a Socialist economy? The whole point is that everything is subsidised. What I’d like to see is the government describe as subsidised everything the majority get that’s paid for by the minority of tax payers.
There is a very real danger that the Chinese auto industry will destroy most of the European car manufacturing in the same way that the Japanese wiped the floor with the UK in the 70s and 80s, the last thing we should be doing is subsidising them.
If we have to have an EV, I’d like a cheap one please. Which European industries do you prefer be destroyed then, as paying more for cars will mean we can’t buy things we currently buy. Which industries are you willing to sacrifice?
China already controls so much of the world’s manufacturing that it must be a concern if this expands further, but yes BYD will be bringing some very cheap EVs to Europe next year.
Some snippets from Current:
https://www.current-news.co.uk/office-for-budget-responsibility-cuts-ev-uptake-forecast-by-44/
The list of excuses seems to miss the idea that the P11D market is near saturation, while private buyers are not engaging.
As for trucks, just call a £100bn cost an “opportunity”.
https://www.current-news.co.uk/decarbonising-hgvs-could-be-a-100-billion-opportunity-says-gfi/
Perhaps as a group we could come up with just one green scheme that has been a benefit?
Traditional agriculture?
They will never get an electric truck powerful enough to carry as much of a load as a 10 or 12 wheeler HGV since it would require several batteries for any reasonable distance and thus not as much load.
I live near the A483 in North Wales. It is a dual carriageway and we make several journeys on it a week varying from 5 to 15 minutes each way. The longer distance is 10miles. I have started to note the number of these large HGVs during these journeys and on the longer ones there are regularly 70-80 and once 99. On the shorter journeys 20-30. All these journeys are mostly between 9am and 10.15am on week days.
If those numbers are repeated throughout the day that is hundreds of such vehicles a day.
The AMA’s view of electric trucks and their mandate by California: https://www.trucking.org/news-insights/heavy-dose-reality-electric-truck-mandates
I think he was being generous in his derision of them.
Snippet from the RAC this morning…
“From 1 April 2025, drivers of electric vehicles will pay for road tax for the first time in the UK. The new 2025 Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) rules will have a significant impact for thousands of EV owners and their annual motoring costs.
The new electric car road tax changes will affect current and future owners of EVs (electric vehicles). There will also be an expensive car tax supplement for electric cars exceeding £40,000. This guide will set out what road tax costs EV owners can expect right now – and how much they will pay when the VED rules change for electric car drivers in 2025.”
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/electric-cars/running/electric-car-road-tax-guide-do-i-need-to-pay/
I don’t know why they are not being charged *road* tax now, as their extra weight must be having a detrimental impact on the *road* surface, i.e. potholes.
Quite. The free ride on the tax doesn’t seemed to have worked very except for businesses and a few highly paid individuals.